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Logic TDM Anyone with LTDM using/going to use L9

Discussion in 'Logic TDM' started by Hitzalong Daway, Jul 28, 2009.

  1. Hitzalong Daway

    Hitzalong Daway New Member

    There. That´s my question. Are we becoming extinct? :(

    G5 2x2.25, OSX 10.4.11, L 8.02, PT 7.4.
  3. Hitzalong Daway

    Hitzalong Daway New Member

  4. It's ok brother......You are not alone :hippy:

    I myself am waiting for the 'word'. I have the box with logic 9 sitting under my desk, already gathering dust for fear of a great and terrible, unreversable dimensional twist upon installation.
    I am currently on LP8.0.2 with PT 8.0.cs3 and OS10.5.7 on a Nehelem monster with 12gb ram and HD3a. All working fine, bar the few bugs we'll never be rid of it seems.
    I binned ESB, the DTDM driver sucks and is about 3 billion lightyears overdue for a rebuild (ever since Apogee blow jobs...or is it jobs blow apogee :villpeeps: )....Ahem, anyway......
    Using core audio with TDM, 8 out to RME analog and 8 out to HD192 lightpipe.

    Not wanting to rock the boat whilst still remaining very excited about new possibilities in LP9, I've held off as it seems to be from the forums, ( all their emotionally and opinionatedly colourful glory), a very mixed bag ranging from "fantastically smooth transition, all working perfectly', to " I'm dead in the water....Smoke pouring from all vents when I click on Logic icon"

    Time will tell.....Patience is a virtue.....So cheers
    Ok, hope you're feeling a little more digitally loved:band:

    Will keep u "Posted"

  5. You will need 10.5 tho to go to LP9....a whole thing in itself .....
  6. Hitzalong Daway

    Hitzalong Daway New Member

    Wow! There´s still somboody as .. Anywhooo. I´m in the middle of an album project: recording/mixing. The master has to be ready by the end of sept. Then ! I´d like to give a boost to my system. At least a new Mac. Not sure where do i go with TDM after that. Tho now i mainly use TDM.
    I wouln´t dare to change to core audio with my 2 x 2,25 Mac. It´s not recommended in the manuals. Not even in LP9 manual. And yet people have all kindsa super freek Macs nowadays with Mayhem prosessors! Maybe i misunderstood. Gotto read it again.
    I´m gonna seek professional help in sept. Concerning gear.:errr:
  7. studioj

    studioj New Member

    nothing but trouble hear in TDM land after installing. had a stable L8 TDM setup, and my macbook pro was running L9 successfully so I was curious and considering going core audio only anyway...

    Every 3rd or fourth time I drag something, whether its a region from the audio bin or a MIDI region on the arrange, L9 crashes. And check this out...this has happened even when I drag a file in the finder between finder windows. As soon as i disable DAE in L9, this problem goes away. weird one, huh? So for the time time being I'm running all native and very happy with it.

    Macpro harpertown quad dual 2.8
    motu 828mkii
    8 gigs RAM
  8. figgebass

    figgebass New Member

    Everything still sheit with 9.0.2? I am currently thinking about getting a protools hd just to get away from the latency of ALL native systems, including those with lightningfast a/d-d/a's (because of logics own latency while routing which you do not get at all when using tdm since the signal never really enters the computer but stays on the hd's dsps) so....will I go nuts if I go to TDM under logic 8 or 9?
    I am so used to using logic that I fear the day I will have to convert to another program...
  9. Hi there,
    I am now using logic 9.0.2 with tdm hd3a and an rme ff400 for native alongside. Os 10.5.8 on a new mac pro. Apart from the limitations of 32bit ram limit and the querks and foibles generated in having to use split stereo files in logic (for most of which there is a workaround) and the hasstle of no pdc on tdm tracks, it seems pretty stable.
    I created an absolutely fresh autoload for lp9, avoiding importing older ones from logic 7 or 8 for fear of bugs. I had teething troubles, but running onyx utility seems to keep strangeness at bay. I have the option to output native via the ff400 or lightpipe back into pt hardware, this is much better than dtdm. I've had the odd crash whilst trying to open a plugin window with logic playing a short cycle (4 bars or so), but only with speaker phone. Vienna au is stable, ew play seems to hog massive memory (but we know this) bounce in place helps to overcome a lot of memory constraints, and I stil find tdm plugins useful otherwise I'd be on native solely by now.
    Hope that helps.

  10. Hitzalong Daway

    Hitzalong Daway New Member

    Thanx P. Still wondering if i should abandon tdm totally when upgrading my mac. I also have so many good tdm plug ins that it would be another money pit to buy´em again for native.. though some of´em alrady are both. But URS for exemple is not. Then again. Recording bands/or what ever is really good on tdm.

    Still wondering..:confused:
  11. Hitzalong Daway

    Hitzalong Daway New Member

    Yeah i forgot. I was thinking if i recored everything on tdm side and then mix everything native. Without the tdm mixer. A bit of a hasstle there but not too difficult.

    Well, still wondering...
  12. figgebass

    figgebass New Member

    My idea too....I only need tdm for recording without latency so any playing back or editing will be in dtdm....BUT from the looks here it seems there is something fishy with it....what's wrong and why do people use core audio through FIREFACE(of all things) instead of running dtdm?
    Mainly I would be using one track tdm for recording vocals or guit and then instantly moving the file to a dtdm track ....would that mean trouble?
  13. Hitzalong Daway

    Hitzalong Daway New Member

    My idea too....I only need tdm for recording without latency so any playing back or editing will be in dtdm....BUT from the looks here it seems there is something fishy with it....what's wrong and why do people use core audio through FIREFACE(of all things) instead of running dtdm?
    Mainly I would be using one track tdm for recording vocals or guit and then instantly moving the file to a dtdm track ....would that mean trouble?[/QUOTE]

    There´s no trouble switching files from tdm to dtdm or back what so ever. I record 1-16. And when i mix i use both mixers tdm and dtdm. I use quite a lot
    software instruments as well. People use core audio now when the computers are so much more powerful than a while back. I still use dtdm since i´m still on Power Mac 2 x2,25. I will upgrade soonish.. and that will be a totally different ballgame...
  14. figgebass

    figgebass New Member

    Ok , so since I have an 8-core nehalem computer then it's better for me to use core than dtdm?? I don't get it....I use a lot of software instruments as well. Do they work less good in dtdm than in core audio?
    Can I run core audio via my 196 or do I have to have another I/O?

  15. The problem with dtdm is you are restricted to running ALL your native tracks through the maximum 8 mono / 4 stereo pairs back into the tdm mixer. Dtdm driver is also pretty (read very bug prone.
    At least using a fireface you have the option of running all your native stuff through its outputs, as well as back into the tdm mixer via adat link if you want to process soft instruments etc with tdm plugins.
    There are loads of people who have binned protools setups in favour of a purely native rig and this is really becoming a 'no brainer' if you are a solo composer using lot's of native instruments etc. Logic is a LOT more user friendly without tdm.
    If, however, you are recording loads of bands / big multi mic setups, then it may well be a 'no brainer' to do that using protools.
    Still nothing wrong in importing those files to logic to add midi / soft instruments etc / bounce and then go back to protools to mix or's all a question of preference.
    I used dtdm for 5 odd years and now use tdm alongside core audio....there is no competition.....the dual setup beats dtdm (which frankly sucks in limitation as well as stability) hands down.
    Either way, any combination setup is going to give you problems to manually compensate for the lack of PDC on TDM objects in logic.....It really can just boil down to your preference, and whether your native D/A converters are as good / worse / or better than your tdm ones.

    Another tuppence haypney.

  16. figgebass

    figgebass New Member

    Ok...another question...When you work in core audio alongide tdm...can you route your core audio output through the same interface as the tdm?
    I spoke to a guy in a musicstore the other day and he said you can use the 192's for example with core audio....Because if I do have to have a separate d-a for core then I won't be happy....

    Let's say I do like this:
    I Program my softsnths in core audio with tdm switched off, then I switch on tdm to record some I have to convert the core-tracks to dtdm or will they run simultaneously?

    When you say that dtdm is bug prone...what do you mean? What "happens"?
    The limitation of 8 outs is no problem for me since I have an api summing mixer w 8 channels.

    DANG I wish that apple would present a card with dsp on it that could run logics plugins on the monitoring so that I didn't have to live wth the monitoring latency created within logic....=/

    All my messing about is because I want a REALLY effing SMOOOTHE setup that makes me do what I want to do with no effort and with great mobility.
    I do not want to go between apps and mess about because I donät like to waste time and inspiration...I donät wanna have to bounce down a 2 track and open it up in anther app just to record vocals and edit them and then when I go back to the other app I just realize I missed some place so I have to close the app and go back to where I recorded and blah blah blah....

    I want a rack with my summing mixer , my interface and my 2 pre amps and that's IT....I wanna be able to plug in a guitar into one of the pre-amp ang get a heavily distorted plexi-marshall through a 4x12 sound without having to bring an amp or an ampsim. I wanna be able to record vocals without latency but WITH compression that's not "on tape" and this mean splitting signals and using mixing consoles which makes me less mobile again.....GAAAAH....

    It seems nothing , apart from buying protools HD and leaving logic (which I have been using since 1997 and before 8 years b4 that I was on Notator) to learn the protools app and never look back...

    Boooh m-f-ing-hoo! ;-)
  17. figgebass

    figgebass New Member

    By the way, what's "PDC" ? Pacific disaster centre? Primary Domain Controller? ;-)
  18. It stands for Plugin Delay Compensation.

    I think also I pretty much answered your previous questions in my last post.

    Just to add I am told that native systems on the new macs with Logic have such low latency times now that recording using plugins and monitoring through the computer is easily manageable. I don't know, I use TDM to record audio in logic.

  19. figgebass

    figgebass New Member

    Thanx for the answer.
    If you consider 5 ms + easily manageable then yes, I guess...
    Unfortunately I'm more sensitive than that...=/ hence my protools idea...
  20. tigerman

    tigerman Senior member

    Hi, i've bought latest mac pro 4 core 3ghz with upgrade PT HD2 pci to pcie + logic 9...
    i'll let you know about it when everything arrives...
    i've decided to stay on TDM and invest to them for one last time, also because of many plugs i own in my ilok...

    consider that i'm not using dtdm i route 3 adat bus from and to pro-tools and motu 2403, core audio + tdm so..
  21. figgebass

    figgebass New Member

    Do I ynderstand this correctly if you are using core audio out via lightpipe into the 192 simultaneously as u run tdm? Is that always in perfect sync w eachother? Yesterday I had 67 ms diff between tdm and dtdm.... Going nuts...

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