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capturing midi fader automation via timecode

Discussion in 'Metric Halo' started by ra byn, May 24, 2010.

  1. ra byn

    ra byn New Member


    I am planning to record 16 channels of audio into Logic via (2) 2882s.

    I also need to allow for the engineer to do a live mix down to a stereo buss.

    Then we will go back & fix any issues after the sessions are over.

    So I need to capture the midi data coming from the Mackie Control Universal in Logic so that it will track the session fader adjustments later on.

    A fellow MH user sent the following in an email,


    "DAW19 will receive timecode and record to the record panel. You have to set it up in the Recording Preferences panel. To enable the options you need to select BWF as the record format. You have the option of simply recording Time Of Day or connecting to an external or software timecode generator. MH does not generate TC....for now."

    So a few questions.

    Is there any reason the "time of day" option should be avoided?
    If so, what would be the best software timecode generator?
    If I need to buy a hardware time code generator, which one?

    Does anyone else do this sort of thing & if so, can you give a description of how it all is configured?

    If no one doing this, any suggestions for the approach to take. I've never done MCU, fader automation, time code or 16 channel at one time.

    Thanks in advance.

  3. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    If you are recording in to Logic, simply put your 16 channels into Touch automation mode. All the MCU fader movements will be captured as track automation. It will then be available for editing after the fact. And if you need to export the automation info to another DAW, you can easily convert the track automation to regular CC7 data for exporting.

    Maybe I'm missing something in your original question; but it doesn't seem like it needs to be any more complicated than this, does it :)
  4. ra byn

    ra byn New Member

    After playing with this Eli, I really don't know what is really the best approach to make. I did set up a test logic session & turned on TOUCH for the channels I wanted to ride with faders but they all jumped back to off if I let them go. So I tried Latch & that seemed to keep them from resetting themselves.

    I'm recording a rehearsal of the upcoming performance in Logic as a stereo channel. I still haven't wrapped my head around monitoring in Logic.

    What I have been doing is recording in the MIO console REC panel & then dragging my files into Logic. Accept this means I have to wait for Logic to work it's magic on each file before I can play the session files back in Logic.

    Considering I'm recording 16 channels at the same time & they will be 2.5 hour sessions that need to remain in one piece, I think it would take forever to import 16 x 2.5 hour files x 4 sessions as I have a few hours a day to revisit the recordings. Then the producer leaves town with whatever we have finished.

    So what I have been doing up til now is monitoring in MIO console & then in Logic via DAW returns for playback. If I record straight to Logic, I would presume I want to leave all the MIO channels muted since the direct outs are feeding Logic on FW1-16. But the only way I get audio to pass in logic realtime is to turn on "software monitor" in Preferences/Audio but then the fader doesn't seem to turn the audio all the way off when it's down. Only by half & I haven't figured out why.

    Not sure if I need to set things up differently & use the "monitor" button on each channel. It appears the fader does nothing in that mode but still not sure.

    What makes this all difficult is the producer requires the ability to create a stereo mix in realtime. I think I'd be fine just tracking & then mixing.

    So what I might need to do is stick with recording in MIO REC console for simplicities sake but figure out how to capture his fader midi automation in Logic & be able to put the two together. Hence the concept of recording time code in the MIO Rec panel on FW 19.

    I've never sync-ed audio to automation, only video to video so I'm not sure if this concept even floats.

    MIO REC panel to capture audio
    Logic to capture midi automation
    time code track to sync the two together later

    If I can figure out my monitoring situation directly in Logic, maybe I can skip all of this & do as you suggest. Just record automation & audio in Logic but at the moment, it just seems overly complex compared to just using MIO REC panel.

    If someone could present the correct "monitoring" settings for the situation I have described, mixing in Logic as I track & sending the stereo main buss out to a recorder, that would be very helpful.

    Basically I'm a PC user who wants to use MIO & Logic & doesn't have enough hours with either to really know what is what.

    Thanks for your patience with me:)

  5. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    So sorry about the Touch automation instructions - that was totally my bad. I meant Latch mode. I'm glad you figured it out. I always seem to get the two mixed up.

    I'm not an MIO user so can't speak to the specific setup with the software console.

    But, in a broader conceptual context, you need to choose between software monitoring and direct monitoring. the reaosn you are not getting proper volume control when software monitoring is on in Logic is because you are monitoring form the MIO console as well. You are effectively getting the signal twice.

    I think you are going to make things way more complicated than necessary by trying to sync automation up with time code after the fact.

    Maybe some MIO users could jump in with specific setup instructions; but let me just throw this out at you:

    * Forget about direct monitoring through the MH hardware. Don't use the MIO console. Pull all the faders in it down so there is no direct monitoring happening.

    * Turn on Software monitoring in Logic.

    * Record all sixteen tracks into Logic.

    * Keep all tracks in Latch mode.

    * Ride the faders in real time as necessary while recording. All the automation will be captured as track automation.

    * Send the main outputs of your Audio hardware to the engineer who wants to record a two track mix. He will get the mixed signal with all of your automation moves.

    Unless I'm missing something here, that should do it.
  6. ra byn

    ra byn New Member

    With all the direct monitor channels muted & with Logic in "software monitor" & with the channels in REC, I do hear the incoming audio. If I turn the fader for that stereo channel completely down, the level drops by half but doesn't mute.

    The only thing that isn't muted in the MIO console is the DAW 1/2 returns which are just the outputs of Logic. If I mute that stereo channel in MIO, the audio is muted.

    So there aren't direct monitors ON in MIO. Instead, there is something weird in Logic that is allowing two paths to the main buss. I started from a the 24 channel recording session template so maybe there is some sort of cue mix that is at play. I'll keep looking...

    In the meantime, the "KISS instructions" are perfect. Once I figure out this monitor issue.

    Thanks Eli,

  7. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    The thing with that 24 track stereo recording template is that it has pre fader sends on every channel, preset at unity gain, feeding a bus that is intended for a headphone mix. By default though it is routed back to the main output. That is where your signal is getting doubled.

    What I would suggest you do is rubber band select all the tracks in the Track Mixer, and then click hold the bus send assignment and remove that bus 20 send. It will be removed for all the tracks at once. That should solve your problem. Save that as a new template and you should be good to go.

    Or alternatively leave those busses active and at unity as they are by default - switch them all to pre fader instead of post fader (so your automation moves will be followed) and then route the output of that channel strip in yellow named "Headphones" to another physical output on your interface; and send _that_ signal to the engineer for the two track mix. That should work just fine as well.

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