Combo Remapper - use score text and symbols to switch articulations
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Logic 9 Composer new to Logic

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by xhouse, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. xhouse

    xhouse New Member


    Is it possible to record (not draw) in real time (by moving the fader) the velocity curve in the Score window?

    Greatly appreciate any suggestions.

    DP 7.12, Logic 9.1.1 OS 10.6.4, VSL, etc.
  3. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Basically this is possible but cannot be answered in a single sentence. We talk about "Automation" and in Logic we have two types of it:

    TBA – Track Based Automation
    This happens in the Arrange window for each track. You can automate almost any parameters of a channelstrip and its plugins. Automation can be written by controllers or drawn by hand and it can be edited. The manual should tell you enough to understand and use it.


    RBA – Region Based Automation

    This type of automation belongs to MIDI regions only. And MIDI regions means also virtual instruments but not audio regions. When you move a fader or knob of a hardware controller while you record MIDI, and this fader is not assigned to anything, the data of the fader get written to the region itself. Light grey vertical bars in the region tell you that there is automation, that there were controller data recorded.
    Region based automation can be viewed and edited in Arrange and in the Score by enabling "Hyperdraw" via the "View" menu.

    From your question we cannot easily tell what type of automation you want to use. You want to change the volume, ok. Now you could use track based automation and write or draw your volume curve to the track. This is what most people do. However, region based automation has its advantages.

    If you have not assigned your fader to some parameter and you have an instrument track selected, moving the fader while recording writes the data directly to the region. You are using RBA and can view and edit the data in Hyperdraw. Pitch goes always to the region, in most cases modulation too.

    For the volume you have the choice, TBA or RBA. I would rather use TBA for that, which means assigning the fader to the volume fader of the track or to the volume parameter of the instrument plugin. Then you have the data in the track and they are easier to edit.

    If you want to have the data in the region, you don't assign your fader to anything and just write controller data. In this case, for volume, you would use Control Change number 7 (CC#7). Then the volume fader of the channelstrip follows because it reacts to CC#7. If you use some other controller number, this may not mean anything to the instrument plugin and therefore be senseless or change parameters you do not want to change.

    Unless you have a reason for RBA, it is a better idea to use the score for the notes and the track automation for volume and other parameters. As a composer you know that playing an instrument loudly sounds different from playing it quiet and turning the volume up. So you want to use the correct velocity for MIDI notes and finally use volume automation for arranging. Therefore few people work with volume in the score.
  4. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    I think the short answer to your question is No. Velocity is not like regular automation. Velocity values are tied to notes; they are a component of the MIDI information that defines a note. It cannot exist separately from the note it is associated with. So, you can't really "draw" velocity independently of notes the way you can other MIDI CC messages. CC messages are separate from notes. Velocity isn't.

    Having said that, you certainly can scale velocity data for already existing notes easily enough in hyper draw view in the score or piano roll editor. This is not really what you are asking for; but I think about as close as is possible - at least that I can think of.
  5. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Oh, I read 'velocity' but thought 'volume' ...
    Eli is right of course.
  6. shreddersinc

    shreddersinc Member

    to Peter,
    Thanks for that explanation
  7. Ginger

    Ginger Member

    The closest you get to recording a velocity curve (without doing something similar by setting up something advanced in Environment>Transform, see below*) is probably to record an additional dummy track with the velocities you want, and 'quantize' the velocities of your track to the new dummy track.

    So, if you're working with 1/16th notes, record a new region with 1/16th notes, and make it a Groove Template. Quantize your region to that Groove Template, and adjust the Q-velocity value. Your region will be getting the velocity of the newly recorded dummy region instead of it's own velocity if you set Q-velocity to 100% (and use it's own, original velocity values if Q-velocity is set to 0%. If you open the Piano Roll (for the actual region, not the dummy region), you can see how your velocities change as you adjust the Q-velocity value.

    It can be very useful if you have eg. entered some stuff in step time, and want to replace the velocities but not the note pitches - but instead of recording your velocities with a fader, you are recording them with your keyboard keys.

    *There are two Transform features on Logic, and the one in Environment works in real time.

    If you go to and click on Downloads>Logic Environments>Logic Users Group>MIDI Processes, you'll find some readymade Environment setups.

    There's something called 'expressr' in there, and here's what it does, from the readme file:

    ETA: This controls the dynamics by using CC#11, Expression instead of velocity/volume, but if that doesn't do the trick for you, maybe you can set up something in either of the Transform windows that lets you control the velocity 'data byte' by the volume level data byte.
  8. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Very nice idea!
  9. Jay Asher

    Jay Asher Senior member

    Indeed, clever!
  10. Ginger

    Ginger Member

    That method can be quite useful, and would work even with a groove template that was made in step time. And one wouldn't even have to worry about playing with an accurate timing, because one could quantize and fix-quantize the groove template region.

    But that other ( method is more similar to what the OP asked for, if CC#11 is set to control whatever velocity usually controls. I have tried it with the default EVP88 sound, and CC#11 seems to control filter cutoff, but at least in EXS it's possible (AFAIK?) to set eg. CC#11 to control volume (which is what velocity often controls). This way, one could use the on screen fader to record a curve that controls whatever velocity usually controls.

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