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Logic 9 fading out in multiple midi files

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by Edgold, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    Is it possible to fade a final chord gradually and evenly into nothing without hearing an audible cutoff? Using the fade tool in the volume window (not in expression!) seems to do it but is there an easier way?
  3. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    Bounce the file (or better yet, send all your audio to a subgroup and record that in real time to get a better quality file than bounce).

    Then load the file into the audio editor, and do the fade there. Sounds much better... I suggest selecting the length of the fade, do the fade command, then select the second half of the fade you did,and fade 1 more time for a more natural sounding fade.
  4. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Why not with volume automation on a submix (Aux Channel)? This is nondestructive and you can draw any curve you want.
  5. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    It never sounds as good.
  6. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    Thanks both,

    So far I've been doing bounces in the simplest way and, so far, I don't understand the purposes and advantages of sends and buses. And following the instructions in the "Exploring" booklet I can send the mix to Aux 1 on bus 7 but do I simply bounce the audio and then modify it or modify all of the midi files or only one of them? And how do I do it?

    Or, more likely, are we talking about an audio export?

    Sorry to be so dense but I've led a sheltered life! ;-)

    Ed Gold
  7. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    Thanks but that seems even more complicated.
  8. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    On the bus you have an summed audiosignal and fade the volume. You said you'd record the sum instead and apply a fade to the file. Why should it sound different? There is no difference apart from the fact that you cannot apply a curve in the sample editor (which is, in my opinion, a must for a perfect fade).

    What kind of difference do you hear?
  9. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    I would suggest that the resolution of the fade within Logic would be less than the 44100 points over a second you would get with the resolution of a fader within Logic (which I suppose it variable depending on tempo). And the Positive to negative levels or resolution is at 16-bit 65536 levels.

    That would be my "off the top of my head" reply.

    As for a curve on the fade, I have found that with the music's natural fade (unless a note is being held) and a secondary added fade, done like I suggested (1 at the required length, a second at half way to the end), has always been satisfactory to the clients I've mastered for over the last 20 years or so, including some of the most picky people in the business.

    In other words, I've never had anyone come back and say the fade was un-nuatural, where using the fader in Logic to attempt to achieve the same thing has been commented on (mainly that the fall to silence is or seems or feels sharp rather than smooth).

    All that said, for sure Logic's bounce function (or audio export) degrades the sound field. I can take a real time bounce in Logic, or do a real time bounce using the Loopback function in my RME card, and hear an audible difference between the 2. Using a bus to combine my final elements in a mix, and then recording the bus as an input, has shown to be better quality than the actual "bounce" function as well. Don't know why.

    So, back to Ed, take all your outputs for your tracks (instruments and audio as well as aux returns, instruments having the midi data) and send them all to a single bus (say bus 10). Add a new audio track, and set it's input to this bus 10, and the output to the stereo outputs on your sound card.

    Also, delete the extra bus 10 Logic will automatically make in the mixer: it will double your volume on the output levels, you don't need it to do this kind of thing, unlike a reverb return bus.
  10. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    OK George but why is it recording a metronome as well as the MIDI files? And the quality so far is not so good?
  11. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    I guess I have the hang of that recording process and I assume, when correctly set-up, it doesn't record the metronome which is not really needed in this instance.

    But what's the purposes of the extra buses?
  12. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Resolution? You may bounce in 24 Bit but still lose the 32 Bit floating point on the way. Could be a difference depending on what happens afterwards to the bounced part.
  13. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member


    turn off the metronome when you are "recording your buss mix"... right? You are recording the output of all your audio... so if the metronome is turned on and sent to your master record buss and set to enable when recording, yes, it will be mixed into your bounce.

    Now as for quality: your "1) record buss mix" SHOULD sound the same as the live mix, the real quality of your mixes sound.. If you use Logic's "2) Bounce" function in the main Logic menu, the sound of the "2)bounce" mix VS the "1) record buss mix" will be inferior.
  14. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    I wasn't able, for the longest time, to find the metronome but finally did in the file>project settings>metronome window with the help of the manual.

    That being said, the metronome wasn't recorded the last time for some reason, but it's a good idea to turn it off unless you are recording another audio (vocal) track which needs to be synchronized.

    Thanks for your help.

    On a related note, what is the best way to reduce the final mix recording to a standard (128) or a higher bit rate (say 160) mp3? The standard is necessary in many instances such as compatibility with other computer systems or on say, SoundClick which restricts resolution on a non-premium page.
  15. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    George, you wrote:

    "Also, delete the extra bus 10 Logic will automatically make in the mixer: it will double your volume on the output levels, you don't need it to do this kind of thing, unlike a reverb return bus."

    I assume you mean the extra output on the right of the mixer since you can't delete the audio on the left without deleting the audio track or at least it's sound.

    The sound that results is pretty fuzzy and degraded in this particular file which has 19 tracks including the audio track. Can I set all the tracks to buss 7? And I'm recording input 1 and 2 since recording buss 7 doesn't seem to work.

    Sorry to be so dense but I'm still a relative neophyte.
  16. Edgold

    Edgold Senior member

    I changed the settings of the audio to Send bus 20 and input-output to bus 20 and stereo out and have gotten it to record properly to group 5. The fade is something else.

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