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Logic 9 I'm not trying to fear monger, but.....

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by Eli, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Hi All,

    I hate these rumors as much as everyone, and I hate reacting to them. But unfortunately this seems to come from fairly reliable sources.

    I really don't mean to be a fear monger here, and don't want to start up a new rant about the future of Logic. I certainly don't want to believe it, and for the moment I don't. But I thought maybe some of our veterans around here, who know some people who know some people, might be able to comment on it:

  3. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    Even if that wasn't on a site which at first glance seems to be dedicated to Logic's primary competition, and therefore perhaps in danger of reporting with a somewhat biased or subjective tone, I wouldn't pay it any attention. Eli, you've been around long enough to know that when the elapsed time between Logic versions is longer than what some may expect, the vacuum created gets filled in some form - more often than not with vacuous cr*p.

    Recent news and rumours indicate that Apple may have strengthened their Pro Audio capabilities through the takeover of Redmatica, there is that other thread about the Polyphonic note recognition patent etc.

    Not that I am in any way particularly well informed as to who is employed or does whatever in Rellingen or anything.....

    BTW, I thought that Avid were the real subject of rumours about rationalisation, development being exported to eastern Europe, Sibelius' UK team getting axed, Avid shares not doing well, sales in their core Video area down, intentions to get out of consumer markets etc. etc.

    Maybe it's just red Herring season? :rolleyes:

    kind regards

  4. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member

    A recent MacWorld highlighted the separate but parallel paths of iOS and OSX. Users have multiple devices these days (ipad, iPod, iphones, and Macs) which are portals to their data, with each one excelling in some way e.g. mobile devices vs Mac with greater power for expanded functionality.

    There's iMovie and FCPX, iPhoto and Aperture, GB and Logic. Logic is among the top grossing apps at the crAPP Store. Then there's the new Intel Ivy Bridge core processors hinting at more powerful Mac in 2013...

    It seems like video editors needs huge amounts of hard drive storage such as provided with a Mac Pro. Otherwise, the user ends up with a Jenga tower of external hard drives.

    As a user of the Adobe Creative Suite, no way am I inspired to edit high resolution images or vector graphics on a touch screen covered with finger smudges...

    Apparently there were raging rumors during the lull between L7 and L8.

    Yada yada....

    But as a user, I gotta admit that the silence is a bit unnerving... especially when Magic Dave (Dave Roberts) from MOTU interacts with users at Motunation, or Helge Vogt among others from Steinberg posts updates, directly responds to user concerns, and at times acknowledges a problem. The connection to the user base creates an esprit de corps which strongly resonates with me in a highly favorable manner.

    Very interesing times.
    And the beat goes on...
  5. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    Well, I have known someone from the old Emagic days for almost 16 years now, and they said that Logic X was coming along. That's good enough for me.

    That and the fact that if Logic WERE to go away, I would do what some of the people I know do: run an older system until the thing fell apart. I can make a Apple Spec Hackintosh that would keep me going for another 10 years if needed, so I'm golden.

    I really doubt that will be the case.
  6. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    I have been fully confident about Logic's future as well. And have had no doubt that Logic X was happily in the works and coming soon. But this post kind of shook me up a bit. I know Russ Hughes and he wouldn't have put it up without doing his due diligence.

    Still, I'm an optimist and will remain happily positive, confident, and excited about what is around the next corner for us all :)
  7. LeeTBTS

    LeeTBTS New Member

    it's not like logic 9 is suddenly going to stop working if this were the (unlikely) case. It's very unlikely that audio is going to suddenly become more demanding and require something more powerful than logic 9. So if you have the software and the hardware to run it then i can't see there being any changes for me for a good few years regardless of whether a new apple DAW comes along or not.
  8. charlie

    charlie Senior member

    Just a passing comment about Avid...
    Avid has been getting out if the consumer market for the last year and devoting their resources to the Pro video and audio market exclusively.
    As a television editor (with many years behind me,) I can tell you that Avid is actually the go-to editorial work-horse hands down in pro television houses, networks, movies houses and other large projects. -More than FCP ever was.
    If Apple is stupid enough to do to The pro audio industry what they did to the pro video/film world, then they deserve the ire of every single person here. As it stands today, virtually every television network I am familiar with (both in NY, ATL & in LA) has either replaced or has seriously downsized the FCP footprint in their post-environments. The nods have gone to Avid with Adobe's Premiere gaining a little bit of steam for the first time in a decade.
    The FCPX fiasco from 2011 was the worst PR event that Apple ever experienced (both publicly and industry wide) and they deserved every minute of it.
    Many people I knew lost a LOT of business when Apple got rid of every feature that made it a competitor to Avid. Clients were rightfully pissed and Apple had no one to blame but themselves.

    My point is that I hope they don't eff with Logic like that. If so,
    I would do as George said and just ride my current set up into the ground and then jump ship. :hippy:
  9. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    I've got Cubase just in case..... ;)

    But Logic 9 is still my workhorse. I'll deal with s#!t when it hits the fan. Apple hasn't said anything and I won't move to another platform until I'm compelled to by feature set. They may well release a smokin' Logic 10 and everyone will be happy. And if it is Garageband 10, I'll probably move on to another DAW. Regardless, no one will ever know what software I did my music on unless I tell them.....

    For real fun, go to the Logicprohelp site and check out the logic 10 rumor topic. Over a year old (started 9/7/2011) and is 31 pages long. Granted it degenerates into humor and off-topics but still shows how long this stuff has been tossed around. No doubt to the amusement of Apple...
  10. forgetr

    forgetr Member

    I will agree that Apple did not handle the FCP X release well. But have you even used it? At all? The last few version are excellent and have virtually every feature I need.
  11. charlie

    charlie Senior member

    I will agree that Apple did not handle the FCP X release well. But have you even used it? At all? The last few version are excellent and have virtually every feature I need.[/QUOTE]

    Then you and I are on completely opposite ends of the professional editing spectrum. (That sounded harsher than I meant it but let me explain...:hippy:)
    Apple FCPX has proven itself that it cannot perform industry standard tasks with any dependability or flexibility needed for most quick change/get it done yesterday/broadcast client demands, ie; the Post-Production Industry.
    I know seasoned FCP Editors who have thrown in the towel long ago (since the X release) because most of the actual professional features were sacrificed by Apple or proved unreliable after X. And sure, Apple has band-aided some of those gaping oversights but the real damage was done by then.
    They lost the trust of their user-base and basically said F U to the editors who made their living using it. Clients caught on very quickly and Avids began re-populating the market-place yielding reliable concrete results than iMovie Pro could. (That's just a fact in my biz.) :hippy:
    I won't go much further into it (that's a lie,) but honestly, nothing compares to Avid (especially with Unity/ISIS media solution) where flexibility, horse-power and reliability are needed.
    Avid Unity and the latest ISIS media solutions enable multiple users to work with the exact same media (SD or HD) at the same time with no rendering and no waiting. That means I can have 2 or 10 other editors working under me and we can deliver multiple versions of the same :30 second spot or 52 minute tv show using no duplicated media and everything is available to every editor when they need it.
    This is all quite expensive which is a gamble on Avid's part but the results speak for themselves. No edit program gives Editors this much creative power so easily.
    Last I checked, FCPX still couldn't play down a timeline without rendering it every time something was adjusted.
    In Avid, I can have multiple video tracks at HD DNX-220 (which is a high bit rate HD video signal enabling professional color-correction in real-time,) with little or NO rendering which saves time for the Editor to be creative as oppposed to waiting for the video card to process everything as much of the heavy lifting is done by external video cards.
    And with Avid, you see every frame and field. No skipped frames.
    FCP does not output every actual frame/field because what it sends to the video card is a proxy of the actual media as opposed to showing you what is really there.
    I think we can all agree that if Logic Pro "colored the sound" as opposed to letting you hear what was really there, most of you would not be using it.
    Soooo, nothing can touch Avid for high demand professional broadcast/film editing. At least not yet. :errr:

    all that said, if Avid folded tomorrow, Adobe's Premiere doesn't seem too bad and if I had to, I'd try their program. At least Adobe has not felt the need to treat their customers as guinnea-pigs to make an iMovie program seem like a pro app.
    Once again, I apologize for my venom but if you ask any Video Post Professional in a high demand position, I would betcha they'll echo what I'm saying here.

    The fact that it works for you is reason enough to keep at it just as I'll keep my tools on my side of the sand-box. ;)
  12. forgetr

    forgetr Member

    Agree to disagree. This could go on and on, and I don't want this to turn nasty, haha. I'm in a friendly mood right now.

    However, I will say that I frequent CreativeCOW and another FCP forum and from what I've read, it's mostly the editors who are accustomed to the tracked timeline who really dislike FCP X. And nothing will change their mind about that. They're too entrenched in that workflow and any significant change (and the magnetic timeline is, apparently) elicits a whine-fest.

    And I will agree that FCP X isn't great on the collaborative front. It's not impossible to collaborate, but it does need work. I'm confident that once it reaches 10.1, it will be a force to be reckoned with.

    But what are we talking about? This is a Logic forum! LUL
  13. charlie

    charlie Senior member

    Well, there are also many Creative Cow forums which call FCPX out for what it is, an Edit program for those who are not in a professional setting and/or have no need for a professional workflow.
    And the shallow argument that all Editors are just too stuck in "older" pro workflows and don't want to move on to the latest "thing" is childish.
    Are you going to tell some of the seasoned audio pros here to stop using those old hardware compressors or expensive retro-modeled plug-ins because they should "get with the times?" That certainly doesn't make sense.
    Those "older" pieces of gear and/or workflows are timeless because they work and yield sought after results & reliability.

    Professionals need to speak a similar language if they are to co-exist and get the job done. Apple thumbed their nose at this when they removed most of the legacy features which made FCP a competitor to Avid.

    As for bringing this all back to Logic, I believe what all the power-users (read: professionals) here are saying is that if Logic became dumbed down (Garage-Band Pro) and stripped the very sensible and flexible legacy features that it has always had, they would leave.
    And if this did happen, will you tell all the pros here to "get over it?"

    Me thinks you will have some angry audio pros here to contend with.
    Hopefully Apple doesn't do any of this and we can all just make beautiful music with Logic as our hub.
  14. EastWest Lurker

    EastWest Lurker Senior member

    Those pro apps specialists are marketing guys. That has nothing to do with app development.
  15. forgetr

    forgetr Member

    So the professionals who use FCP X on a daily basis, suddenly, aren't professionals anymore? A professional is not a professional because of the tools he uses. Sure, you aren't going to see a lot of professionals using GarageBand, but if they did, and they produced good work, does that make them unprofessional? I'm really not understanding your viewpoint.
  16. rzzz

    rzzz Member

  17. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member

    C7 looks very appealing with the promise of improved performance on the Mac due to ASIO Guard; the redesigned mixer; and ready for download 7 days from now . Another development to keep an eye on is Steinberg's recent purchase of the entire Sibelius team after being jettisoned by Avid.

    The Environment, the score editor, the cpu efficiency, and overall ease of continue to make Logic my best option.
  18. charlie

    charlie Senior member

    No, actually that makes no sense.
    A pro uses pro-gear because it yields results for what they need.
    Musicians spend money on good/expensive instruments because of the quality & workmanship therein. Do you criticize a musician for buying an expensive guitar for example? No. That "pro-instrument" gives him reliable results.

    The simple fact about FCPX is that it lost it's footprint in the television/film industry from what it was 2 years ago because Apple gave up on remaining current & competitive in the professional world.
    Debate it all you want, that's just a fact.
    And judging from the comments in this very thread, the pros here already have opinions about other creative "professional" audio programs out there (like Cubase) that offer similar flexibility and horse-power IF they needed to work with something else.
    I have never heard any pro audio mixer/engineer say they'd love to work with an inferior "consumer" program (like Garage-Band.)
    That's not elitist, that's just being a professional.

    Don't really know what else there is to say about any of this.
    I'm still hopeful that Logic does not become Garage-Band Pro with it's next release.
  19. Colin Shapiro

    Colin Shapiro Senior member

    Back to the original topic...

    This latest input from MacRumours:

    Last week, a rumor surfaced claiming that Apple had "decimated" its pro audio group, calling into question the future of Logic and other audio-focused software from the company. The rumor was, however, quickly dismissed by Jim Dalrymple and his impeccable sources at Apple, with Dalrymple noting that there was "no truth" to the rumor that Apple had slashed its pro audio team.

    MacRumors reader Nicholas wanted to hear confirmation straight from Apple and emailed CEO Tim Cook to ask about the future of Logic. His email was passed along to Apple's music product marketing chief, Xander Soren, who provided a distinct rebuttal to the original rumor.

    "Nicholas, thanks for your email. As the lead for our music creation apps, I always want to hear what our users are thinking. I want to assure you the team is still in place and hard at work on the next version of Logic Pro.

  20. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member


    Thank you for posting this.

    Silly to consider what if Apple made a statement such as the one above months ago...
  21. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member

    Per the January MacWorld, Apple has been more insistent in the past couple of years that iOS and OSX are two side of the same coin. Apparently in a change of management, one person, Craig Federighi, oversees development of both.

    The theme is integration of key technologies across product lines...

    That sounds encouraging to me.

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