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Is X just different, or better?

Discussion in 'Logic Pro X' started by bayswater, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. bayswater

    bayswater Senior member

    I've had Logic since V4, but never as my main DAW. I won't go into the reasons -- I'm sure they've all be debated in detail. I use it in large part now to access work by composers who use GB as a scratch pad, and from there port to other applications, and occasionally dip into Logic for specific features. I updated from 7 to 8 because of the stuff that was added in for free, and then updated from 8 to 9 mostly out of habit.

    Now I'm wondering if there is a good reason for me to update to X from 9. I went through Eli's intro videos, and the X manual, and came away with three conclusions: 1) Apple has worked very hard to make Logic accessible to GB users. 2) a lot of things that take time to set up have been "preconfigured" like drummer tracks, sub mixes, etc. 3) Logic seems to be getting a lot more like other DAWs over time. I'm not sure any of that helps me. I'd have to say, from the screenshots, X looks a lot better than 9.

    So my question is, for those who concentrate mainly on recording real instruments, and then edit and mix audio and a bit of MIDI, does X do anything that 9 doesn't do, aside from maybe simplifying some workflows? Does it do things like pitch correction, beat detections, or anything else, better?
  3. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    This is obviously a very open ended question that's hard to answer in a single post. But to put it in the context you are asking about: If you are recording lots of live audio and use pitch correction, Logic Pro X has a new built in pitch correction function called Flex pitch. It's not quite in the same league as Melodyne. But for simple bread and butter pitch correction (and let's face it, that's what most of us use pitch correction for 90% of the time) it's fantastic.

    Other notable features that may or may not be of interest to you: Drummer (great for establishing a live drum feel for song writing), MIDI plug-ins; the Arpeggiator is fantastic. Track Stacks - if you work with large projects, it's great for managing complexity, among other things.
  4. bayswater

    bayswater Senior member

    Thanks Eli. Yes, it was an open ended question, and I didn't expect to get a complete answer. Just looking for new things and improvements that people are really pleased with.

    Pitch correction is good, and although I have Melodyne editor, for simple things, I'd probably use that.

    Many new features, lil the drummer and stacks seem to be what I'd call "productivity" enhancements. You can already do what they do, but not without considerable effort. That along with the much improved interface may be enough.

    Thanks for pointing out the MIDI plugins, I hadn't noticed those.
  5. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    The transition from Logic 9 to 10 is very similar as you experienced it from Logic 7 to 8. Complete redesign in graphics, partial redesign in functionality (both with bugs of course), more wasted space, less responsive, but generally not bad. Once you got used to it you don't go back. I guess the fully developed version will be Logic 11. You know, only odd numbers work really well, usually ;)

    If you work a lot in the Environment you will hate Logic X for its graphic behavior. But if you deal with Arpeggios or Chord Triggers you will find the new MIDI plugins incredible good. There is also a modulator with envelope and an event converter with scaling.

    But Apple again managed to prevent you from feeling too happy: The MIDI plugins are only available in instrument channels and they only control the one inserted instrument. For all other applications you have to use third party software to send your MIDI out and bring it in again for routing, writing automation etc.

    "Track Stacks" is an organizational tool for track-grouping. Some features, but don't expect too much, you would not upgrade just for that.

    What else could be interesting for you, well, maybe the new "Smart Controls", which are a clever way to assign controllers to specific parameters including editable curves. They are generally better to handle than the Controller Assignments you know.

    One important point you may already know: Logic X is 64-Bit only, your 32-Bit plugins will not work at all. However, if you can't get updates you can use a software named "32 Lives" from Sound Radix. It's a converter and works well. Not for Waves plugins, but for most others.
  6. Per Boysen

    Per Boysen Senior member

    I use both 9 and X for different purposes that they are good at. I'm finding X MIDI plugins very useful; especially the long sought after method of running arpeggiators and throw in a velocity modulating plugin that you can automate over time for subtle variations in the feel of the note cascades - this can now be done in X. But I'm having a problem in X converting this to plain MIDI for the last finalising part of the production. In 9 I used to set up a bunch of cooking arps and when the music was 95 % ok I wired up the environment to record the generated MIDI into plain MIDI tracks, so I could carry out detailed adjustments. Still looking for a way to do this in X.

    The drummer tracks is another X fav of mine. Lets you work more like a director than like a programmer. For live drummer style "fills and stuff" this X feature is my holy graal.

    One thing I still use 9 for is intensive automation work. This is because in X you can't create automation nodes instantly by just one single mouse-click, you have to double-click and all this double-clicking does in fact double the "mouse hand" pain over a long automation work period.
  7. Jay Asher

    Jay Asher Senior member

    Overall, better, but as always happens with a major revision, in some ways worse. I disagree with Peter, though. I think Track Stacks is a game changer.
  8. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Agreed with the Track Stacks (and it's not even that much effort).

    But the Drummer is something completely new. There is a new software instrument it works with called Drum Kit Designer, and it is fantastic. Not just the interface, but there is a complete new library of great sounding acoustic drum kits. It may not be important for your particular needs, but Drum Kit Designer and the samples definitely something completely new. And Drummer itself removes so much of the "considerable effort" needed to replicate what it does that it qualifies as something "new" IMHO, as opposed to just a productivity enhancement.
  9. bayswater

    bayswater Senior member

    Thanks everyone for the detailed replies and balanced perspective. Maybe I'll wait to see if X.1 clears up some of the issues mentioned here and elsewhere on the forum. Or V11, whatever comes first. I see X was released July 16, so if Apple has gone to annual updates, 11 might not be that far away.
  10. mt100uk

    mt100uk Senior member

    I wouldn't wait for a whole number update (I can't remember how long between 9-X but it felt about 3 years!) but there are a number of annoying bugs which apple seems to be working through relatively quickly, it might be worth waiting for a 10.X update. Track stacks are great for recording. Say your recording a guitar with 3 mics/sources, you've added effects etc, it sounds good but the guitarist now wants to add a couple of additional lines, just hit command+D with the stack master track selected and it will duplicate all the enclosed tracks + settings/plugs etc, massive time saver for fast paced sessions! Also silly things like plugin tags in the channel strip now only require one modifier (alt) to drag+copy the plugin to another strip and have little buttons for mute/open plugin/choose plugin, so again less modifier action. Flex pitch is *almost* there, doesn't sound as good as melodyne but is quick and easy (when it works properly!) I'm not too fussed about the new plugins but the new GUI for the eq is a lot nicer. I swap back-forward and always inwardly groan when it's a 9 track (but also swear profusely when X decides to spontaneously time stretch a track/decides that a region that has ALWAYS been at x.1.1 when alt+drag to be at say 17.1.1 ends up at 16.4.123 grrrrr!)

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  11. bayswater

    bayswater Senior member

    I'm assuming Apple will be updating annually now, as per their approach with OS X and other applications. If so, I wouldn't expect to see a x.1 update. We'll know soon one way or the other.
  12. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    I see a couple of channels to a bus. And a MIDI stream to a couple of synths. Where is the treasure buried?
  13. mt100uk

    mt100uk Senior member

    The treasure is not having to use folders ;-)

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  14. bayswater

    bayswater Senior member

    I assume you mean the 'region' folders. Those are completely baffling. Yes, a simple folder you can flip open and closed is very much overdue.
  15. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Ok. Since I never use folders, I missed
    the big relief not having to use folders :)
  16. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    It's here in LP X; it's called a Folder Stack.
  17. Jay Asher

    Jay Asher Senior member

    Summing Stacks for saving a patch with complex sounds, FX send to busses with the FX, etc., basically VCA control.

    Folder Stacks for viewing/not viewing MIDI sub-channels in multi-timbral instances.

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