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Logic 9 Logic 9 Lag/freeze/unresponsive issue

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by beatattitude, Jul 2, 2015.

  1. beatattitude

    beatattitude Member

    Hi all. I'm wondering if any kind soul out there can advise me on how to troubleshoot my logic 9 lagging problem? I've tried to be as clear and detailed as possible. Sorry for the long post.

    Late 2009 27" imac
    OS X Yosemite
    2.8ghz Intel Core i7
    8gb memory 1067 Mhz DDR3 (4x 2gb)
    Ati Radeon HD 4850 512 MB
    Logic 9.1.8 (32 bit)
    Prism Orpheus
    (latest version - 1.07 software, and firmware. Not been updated in a few years though)

    Recently, I've found my logic 9 projects becoming unresponsive after a while. Things which seem to trigger it include:

    • When I try to adjust mixer settings using the little mixer shortcut window on the bottom left of the screen (the one that changes depending on which channel you select in the arrange window).
    • When I'm playing back a section and I press the 0 on the number keypad, it takes a while to process the keystroke.
    • When I try to "save as" (either the project or if I do a bounce)
    • When I use melodyne (but it also happens even when I'm not using melodyne)

      It's never consistently one thing that does this, though.

    It's a strange phenomenon, because it does not stop audio playback, but it seems to buffer all the commands I try to select (e.g. stop/cycle/save/mute etc...) and then does them as it eventually gets around to them.
    The meters for I/O and CPU never seem to be too stressed either. It's less common on new projects, but it still happens I seem to recall. In a busy project, I'll have maybe 10-15 audio tracks, about 5-8 software instruments e.g. Easy Drummer plus logic instruments, 3 or 4 instances of Space Designer, few pitch tuners, bit of flex time, multiple take folders. But we're using 3-4 minute songs here, not mixing e.g. a 2 hour live show with 48 tracks of audio.

    Rebooting Logic tends to give me a little bit more time before it starts to happens again.

    As soon as I detect it happening, I make sure that my next command is Ctrl+S, and I wait it out, reboot logic, and continue. I don't recall it ever crashing logic.

    I'm wondering whether it is a result of any of the following:

    1. I upgraded my imac to an SSD
    2. I upgraded to Yosemite
    3. Do I have a faulty plugin?
    4. Is my novation 49sl MkII controller causing problems (or the Automap software)?
    5. Do I need to reinstall my Prism Orpheus interface drivers?
    6. Have I got a wrong setting in the Orpheus control panel?
    7. Is there an issue with the sample rates I'm working with (some of my projects I'm using 96k/24bit)?
    8. Have I set the audio settings wrong in logic?
    9. Do I need to reset the logic user settings/preferences file?
    10. Am I just running too many plugins?
    11. Is some other app interfering with Logic? I'm running dropbox, airdroid, time machine (rarely), path finder, sophos (switched off), Covenant Eyes (internet monitoring software)
    12. Should I be running logic as 64 bit?
    13. I have 66gb free in my 1tb drive. Is that not enough?
    14. Is there a dodgy setting in my audio/midi setup in OSX?
    15. Is my computer running too hot? I'm using SSD fan control, with temperature around 52 degrees C when it's working hard in a warm room.

    I made a video example illustrating the issue, but it's maybe not so helpful, as it just demonstrates the way I've pressed play and the thing has become unresponsive. I've also attached a screen grab of my audio/midi settings (in OSX) and my audio device settings (within logic)

    Can anyone advise me as to the best place to start with troubleshooting?

    My suspicion is that it's related to the Orpheus, because it has recently had an issue where I open a project, but sound doesn't play back immediately, and I have to reset the audio device in the Audio preferences (apply changes), and then the sound works.

    I'm currently trying to use the mac's onboard audio interface, and it seems to be working smoothly. Having said that, though, it can work fine for e.g. an hour, and then start becoming unresponsive.

    I've tried disabling all non-Logic/apple plugins except Melodyne which I need. I had some old plugins like T-Racks and things which I've discovered are not compatible (they want me to buy the latest!) but I disabled these plugins in that AU thingy window, and there are no instances of these plugins in the mixer.

    Any advice?



    Orpheus software:
  3. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    Please don't apologise, on the contrary, well done and thank you for putting so much detail in your request for help, that is as good an example I have ever seen as to how to post!

    Did you upgrade directly from Snow Leopard? There have been reports of logic 9 freezing, which seems to have become an issue since Lion. If so, did you keep your old OS on the drive you swapped out for the SSD? It might be worth reverting back to that - if you can put it in an external HD case you can boot from it as opposed to swapping the new SSD back out of the Mac. The other thing is whether you are expecting too much from a 6 year old Mac running a current OS, especially running high sample rate projects. The 8 GB memory might also be a problem if you are using a lot of sampler instruments.

    Just a few ideas, good luck sorting this one out.

    kind regards

  4. beatattitude

    beatattitude Member

    Hi Mark. Thanks for the reply. No, directly from Mavericks.

    No - it died, and I had Yosemite installed, then used Time Machine to migrate my files and setup.

    The CPU & I/O meters are relatively low, though. Normally when a project maxes out the system, you get a warning message, no?

    The CPU was a pretty top range one at the time, 2x quad core...nothing else seems to make it struggle...

    I'm not using many more software instruments than I used to run on my ancient PC with logic 5.5, either...
  5. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    Did you have these issues using Mavericks? If you have Logic Pro X, what happens if you open a Logic 9 project in LPX?

    As Yosemite (and Mavericks) were released after LPX, hence long after Logic 9, if these newer OSX versions cause problems with Logic 9, I fear that they may not be addressed by Apple. Hope I'm wrong, perhaps somebody with Logic 9 running on yosemite can chime in, I'm mostly in LPX these days, but still on Mavericks.

    Concerning CPU & IO meters - it is also helpful to open the activity monitor and have a look at how resources such as CPU and memory are looking there.

    kind regards

  6. beatattitude

    beatattitude Member

    To be honest, I can't fully remember. I might have had it on occasion, but I wasn't using it as much before I got the SSD. All I can say is it became much more of an issue after the new SSD and Yosemite.

    I don't have Pro X. Happy to upgrade, though I want to be sure I need to, because it seems quite a bit different, and I seem to recall there were some issues that I wanted to look into before upgrading. I'd like to eliminate a few other options before buying the upgrade, though. Nothing more annoying than paying for a fix when it doesn't fix the problem :)
  7. beatattitude

    beatattitude Member

    How do I go about eliminating the other possibilities in the list before trying this one?
  8. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    Fist of all, you will need a lot of time. I'll try to go through your list as best I can, I have also pout what I think needs urgent attention at the top of the list, but some of the answers may involve a lot of work on your part:


    Make sure that at least 20-30% of your HD is free. Combined with only 8 GB of RAM, this is very critical, The OS is possibly having a lot of difficulties swapping cached data. Also, make sure you are recording to and reading from a drive other than your internal/system SSD.

    As already mentioned, revert back to your previous OS. See my previous comments about Logic 9 in Yosemite.

    It's always possible. First thing to do is check that all Plug-ins are up to date and Yosemite compatible. The respective developer sites should help here. Failing that (deep breath) remove all instances of every Plug-in, then start adding them back one at a time and observe what happens. I know, this is easier said than done, but here eliminating each potential problem is the safest way to go.

    Again, check that everything is up to date and approved. Then, removing these and seeing if it makes a difference is the way to go.

    Possible, do you experience these freezes running 44.1 or 48 kHz sample rates?

    Usually problems caused by any of these should result in an overload warning, if you are not getting such warnings then they are less likely to be the cause.

    Switch all of them off (make sure they are not running in the background by checking the activity monitor. Disconnect your computer from the internet, turn of WiFi. Years ago the rule was that a DAW was not connected to the internet, but, largely for the sake of convenience this rule is ignored now.

    Yes IMO

    I have no idea.

    Can you cool down the room and see if it makes a difference? 52°C doesn't sound like it is too warm, but if it was, I expect that this would manifest itself in other ways.

    The first thing to do is make more space on that SSD!

    HTH, kind regards

  9. beatattitude

    beatattitude Member

    OK, I'm doing this now. I'm going through my drive and moving/deleting files to try and reclaim some space.
    I'm recording to/reading from my internal system SSD, but that can't easily be helped. I'll try freeing up space in the first instance to see whether that affects things.

    Do you think that boosting the RAM to e.g. 16gb (if that's possible in my machine) is likely to pay dividends?
  10. beatattitude

    beatattitude Member

    OK, progress report.

    1. I cleared some space on the SSD. It now has 220gb free on a 1tb hard drive. However, I still encountered the issue after about an hour or so working on a project. The issue arose when I tried to adjust a setting in the quick-access mixer section (what is that bit called again? Is it like the "dynamic mixer window" or something? the bit on the bottom left of the screen which has the current active channel strip and its output strip...)

    2. I went online to Novation's site, to check if there was an update for my Automap software. Interestingly, there was. It's interesting, because clicking on the "update software" link within the Automap software told me that the software was already up-to-date.

    I've installed the latest version of automap to see whether that helps.
  11. beatattitude

    beatattitude Member

    I've installed a CPU /system monitoring app.

    I worked on the project for about 30-40 minutes and then it started slowing down. This time the sluggishness started as I stopped/started playback - I didn't interfere with the mixer window.

    The CPU monitor did not indicate any spikes in usage, neither did the memory.

    Here is the temperature it was registering shortly after closing down Logic.


    I switched off logic, and took note of the memory usage.

    Then I switched it on, and ran the track.
    If I'm reading this correctly, the computer does not seem to be struggling with anything, (though I'm not sure I understand all the measurements being taken). I note that Chrome seems to be taking up 2GB of memory that normal? I don't always have Chrome running when I'm working on logic. I usually close all other apps.

    Lastly, I took the measurement of the CPU when running the track.

    Again - doesn't seem to be struggling at all.

    Bear in mind - when I close and reopen Logic, the issue goes away, and these measurements are taken when I've just reopened.

    Does anyone have any thoughts?
  12. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    Sorry to read that you are still experiencing this issue. The question remains as to what role Yosemite might play. IIRC, since OSX 10.7 came out, reports started cropping up about logic 9 freezing. May not be that much help to you :(

    kind regards

  13. beatattitude

    beatattitude Member

    Fair enough...Out of interest, can you tell me what things I should take into consideration if I upgrade it? How is it likely to affect my current projects? It's important that my ongoing projects don't get messed up. Melodyne and superior drummer are the two plugins I need to work.
  14. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    A time honoured rule of thumb is, never upgrade in the middle of any project. Having said that, you can install Logic Pro X alongside Logic Pro 9, it is even possible to have them both running simultaneously. The Melodyne Editor Plugin in my experience is OK in LPX, I don't use superior drummer.
    A substantial change is that LPX is 64 bit only, the option of starting in 32 or 64 bit mode is no longer there. If you have any 32 bit Audio Units that you can't do without, 32 Lives from Sound Radix works well as a 32 bit AU Bridge, I use it to run a variety of older AUs, including various TC Powercore effects, some older NI stuff such as the Pro 53.

    kind regards

    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
  15. bayswater

    bayswater Senior member

    I noticed a lot of friends' Macs slowing down a lot when going to Yosemite. Putting an app like Memory Monitor on a Mac with Yosemite and 4G RAM shows it, and it looks like 8G is a new minimum. This app is free in the App Store. Install it and run it while you are running Logic. You may see the system running short of memory.

    Depending on what you are going with Logic, I think that running it in 64 bit would be a good idea too. Otherwise, Logic is restricted to 4G RAM, and will be using disk swaps when it needs more than that.

    Both of these would suggest you put 16G RAM in your 2009 iMac (same model as mine). With 16G, you will also be able to set up some VIs to take advantage of RAM so they run more smoothly.
  16. beatattitude

    beatattitude Member

    It seems to be running well at the moment... I did the following things:

    I updated Yosemite with an update that was available in the apple store. It's now running 10.10.4 (14E46)
    I started using Logic in 64bit mode.
    I changed the audio i/o buffer settings to 64samples

    Not sure which of the above contributed most (the last is least likely I expect)

    If anything changes and it goes back to its old tricks, I'll let you know, but I've had a few hours of stable work since these changes, so hopefully that's fixed!
  17. beatattitude

    beatattitude Member

    No, sadly that was shortlived.

    It's strange that it should work fine for a short while, then start to slow down and become unresponsive.
    It's happening on the projects with more plugins and instruments being used. But it does feel like the problem exists because I'm editing settings in different windows - the arrange window one minute, then the mix window the next. It seems to take a moment to remember which window is "active". Any thoughts?

    I'm planning to upgrade Logic, but once the current album is finished.

    Can anyone suggest anything in the meantime?
  18. Zonger

    Zonger New Member

    First time today for me. Been using 8 with an NFR copy for years and have just installed a retail Logic 9, studio 2.1 on an iMac running 7.5. Install appears clean, but I have a can't launch notice due to the OS 7.5 being incompatible. If anyone can put me right on where or how to search for the answer, I would sure appreciate it.
  19. Jay

    Jay New Member

    Hi beatattitude, I'm actually having this same problem... Did you manage to sort it? If not I can go into detail about my system...
  20. beatattitude

    beatattitude Member

    I didn't sort it. It has been ongoing, and the way I've been working around it is to save as soon as it starts to get laggy, then close and reopen logic.

    The thing that seems to tip it over the edge is when I'm clicking within one window (e.g. arrange) then directly trying to change something in another (e.g. mixer), without clicking on the background to make the new window 'active'. The CPU/HDD meters are of little help, though I do feel that I get better performance when the computer is cooler.

    I don't know whether there is some issue with cached files somehow building up, or some processes within logic hogging CPU cycles or something else...

    When I have google chrome running at the same time, it seems to exhibit the symptoms a bit sooner, which suggests CPU - chrome seems to hog CPU. Nevertheless, it's strange that my CPU should be struggling - the 2.8ghz Intel Core i7 is not the latest model by any means, but it's no slowcoach either.

    Plugins I'm running are usually things like Melodyne (at least one instance, sometimes 2 or 3), Superior Drummer, and projects have between 20 and 40 tracks, with 4 or 5 logic synths or exs24 instruments. 2 or maybe 3 logic convo. reverbs.
  21. Jorangb

    Jorangb New Member

    I have the exact same issue. I mostly work with midi and software instruments, and Logic get´s unresponsive after a while. My workaround is saving/closing and starting over again. And after a while I experience the same problem.

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