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Logic 9 multiple midi ports.....time to bug Apple...

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by bmiller360, May 5, 2010.

  1. bmiller360

    bmiller360 New Member

    Does anyone else feel the strong need for a version of Logic with the ability to access multiple midi ports, in much the same way as (the dreaded) Pro Tools does? With the advent of Vienna Ensemble Pro, we are not only limited to 16 midi channels per instance of VEP.......the worst is that we can only have one multi-timbral instrument (Stylus, Kontakt, etc) per instance of VEP. The reasons for this important feature could go on and on, but please give this midi implementation a thought. It would greatly improve work flow and organization for us.
  3. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    Not that I disagree with or in any way want to put down your suggestion, but given that Logic is now 64 bit, I just wonder whether the use of VEP with Logic will be such a high priority. Once Sample Instruments are 64 bit (and there is already a 64 bit public beta of a very important 3rd party sample AU, namely kontakt 4.1) the memory issues with 32 bit Logic that could to an extent be worked around by using VEP should in the not too distant future no longer be any sort of issue.

    Or would there still be other vital reasons for using VEP together with Logic in the manner you describe?

    kind regards

  4. bmiller360

    bmiller360 New Member

    Mark.......what I use VEP for is to have an open rack of instruments available at all times. I do television primarily, and when I go from cue to cue on a tight deadline, I don't want to wait for everything to load every time I need to return to a previous cue. when I do a save-as for a new cue it's not a problem because everything is loaded, but going back to a previous cue is too awkward to be sitting while all the AUs load again. Also, VEP allows me to use recurring setups in a much simpler and more organized way.
    My use of VEP has absolutely nothing to do with memory, though the new 64bit world does solve many other problems and I'm happy to be in 64 bit land.
  5. zerobeat

    zerobeat Senior member

    Bruce's use of VEP in that context is what I had hoped MainStage could be used for: A "stationary" rack of virtual instruments that would sit outside the confines of any given Logic project. This is especially useful for film/tv composing, where you generally have a common palate of sounds needed cue after cue. But you could still instantiate individual things per cue [per Logic project].

    It's the way MIDI composers all did it at one time: Have a big mess of hardware synths and samplers loaded up with sounds all triggered with a MIDI sequencer.

    Bidule by Plogue does this (and a zillion other things). It's a very confusing piece of software, but it works.
  6. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks Bruce. To be perfectly honest, that is THE "other vital reason" I thought you might mention, it is perfectly valid and a very good reason for asking for Logic's ability to access multiple midi ports to be looked at again. With more and more use being made of very large sample libraries, load times are definitely an issue.

    Have you sent this to:


    I also agree with Ferenc - surely Mainstage could be developed to serve this function?

    kind regards

  7. Sascha Franck

    Sascha Franck Senior member

    Might be worth to mention that quite a lot of orchestral composers not only make use of VEP but also of slave computers (huge sample libraries are still quite a taxing thing), so the same MIDI limitations apply. These slave computers, at least rather often, are Windows machines, offering yet some advances for the time being, namely that you can actually work in 64bit already (ok, the advent of Kontakt/64bit might change things) and that you can use plugins that still aren't availabe in Mac-land.
    However, regardless what platform you're running on the slaved machine, Logic users are often complaining about the very lack of the MIDI implementation.

    - Sascha
  8. Jay Asher

    Jay Asher Senior member

    I totally am on board this idea but frankly I don't get the feeling that Apple considers it a priority.
  9. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    I agree with Sascha:

    Most composers use Logic for their main DAW, and use between 1 and 3 or 4 computers for sample libraries. Heck, LA Strings suggests you use 2 for it, VEPro and Play DO NOT like to be installed and work on the same computer, So in the end, in order to get everyone happy, multiple systems are the only way to go. I have been building and configuring custom systems like this for a number of composers in the LA area, and they seem to be very pleased with the performance of this type of setup.

    As for 64 bit Logic, no professional client of mine will go there: Logic, in 64 bit mode, with the 32 bit plugin converter, are simply not stable enough at this time. I have never been able to work with it for more than an hour of so without things crashing. If you are working on a major film or TV show, that is simply not good enough.

    George Leger III
  10. Jay Asher

    Jay Asher Senior member

    Really? I am just finishing up scoring a DVD project and I have been in 64 bit the whole time. It is mostly EXS24 and Kontakt 4.1 based and while I have had a few crashes, nothing that was a deal breaker.
  11. bmiller360

    bmiller360 New Member

    hey George........maybe you just need some clients who are willing to get into the 21st century. Sorry.....couldn't resist. Honestly, I don't know who your clients are, but maybe you should check out the advantages of an app like VEP on the slave computers. Much simpler to open VEP setups on the slave computers (as well as on primary computer), then to be opening multiple apps on multiple computers.
    Regarding 64 bit......you'd better accept it, because it's here to stay, until 128 bit and/or 256 bit......etc. I'm sure your clients are very prestigious.....however, I just finished a lowly CBS television pilot......did it in 64 bit and had no more problems then I always had in 32 bit mode. AND......because of scheduling issues.......I got my online, locked cut at around 11:00pm.......mix at Sony was at 9:00am............64 bit was invisible and worked just fine.....not that the 32 bit wrapper (whatever it's called in Logic) doesn't occasionally give me a little fit, but honestly....my setups generally include 64 bit apps.......stylus, trilian, omnisphere and 64 bit Kontakt 4 gives me quite a broad choice of instruments, so for me, my use of the 32 bit plugins are not too frequent.....but if I need them.......I have them. Even UAD2 efx seem very comfortable in the 32 bit lLogic wrapper...
    So, either way it's whatever works for you, but one thing we do know.......either now or later.......you will be forced to enter 64 bit land.....I choose sooner.
    BTW......if your clients are on multiple machines.............maybe load a 32 bit VEP on a slave machine, with everything else in 64 bit mode.......just my take....
  12. Orren Merton

    Orren Merton Logic Samurai / Administrator Staff Member

    To piggy back on what Sascha and George are saying, I've heard from various Apple developers that in general, running multiple realtime engines on the same computer can be pushing it. That is why they don't allow MainStage to be used as a plug-in host for Logic—each runs it's own realtime engine, and Apple doesn't believe the two running on the same machine could ever be as rock solid as each one on it's own machine. Obviously, there are people who run multiple realtime engines on the same machine and it works for them, but this might be another reason Apple doesn't consider it a priority right now.


    PS—Bruce, if the pilot you did the music for is Sh*t My Dad Says if it gets picked up by CBS I am hereby requesting an invite to the studio to meet William Shatner! ;)
  13. bmiller360

    bmiller360 New Member

    Orren.....though i'm not as much of a techie as many others, my feeling is that multiple engines seems to work fine for me. Vienna Ensemble Pro on my Mac Pro, along with Logic pro feels fine. There are issues with loading, etc that seem different on a separate machine, but the actual audio doesn't seem to be affected.
    also, I didn't do that pilot, but if, for any reason, it comes my way for series, you've got your intro!
  14. Jay Asher

    Jay Asher Senior member

    Fine here also.
  15. composerguy78

    composerguy78 Member

    This thread seems to have gotten very much off topic. I would like to heartily say a big 'hear hear' to Bruce who posted this topic and that it is HIGH TIME for logic to allow for more than 16 channels in one instrument. It is highly frustrating that other DAWs can do this yet Logic cannot. I need this both for running within logic and for using it with VE Pro.
    How do we bug Apple more about this one?
  16. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

  17. CSeye

    CSeye Senior member

    Being able to use Kontakt on a Node would be nice.

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