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Logic 9 Program Change to grouped instruments?

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by Realitybud, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Realitybud

    Realitybud New Member

    When a MIDI channel 1 program change event is duplicated (via a monitor object in the environment) to several identical instruments belonging to a mixer group (all on channel 1), only one of the group (having the highest mixer instrument number) responds by changing to the corresponding new performance setting. All others in the group ignore the event.
    Anyone know a way to get multiple instruments in a group all responding properly to a single program change event?
  3. Atlas

    Atlas Senior member

    Could you clarify, if you are talking about plugins or external MIDI intruments?
  4. Tangra

    Tangra Senior member

    This is not possible cause the Logic performance presets are controlled internally from the Physical Input and the Sequencer. In other words the environment is ignored and you can not use it to make any tricks etc. For example, if you try to produce a Program Change (PC) message set on midi channel 1 using some environment fader or button cabled to any channel strip or to the sequencer you will find out that the (PC) will not recall any CS performance preset.
    The only way you could use is to pre-load some CS presets on different channel strip instances and create a special environment scheme which can re-direct the incoming midi (via Program Change) to each preloaded instrument etc - so you will make a Main Stage emulation which is better than the Performance CS presets regarding the sample instrument gabs (loading). Grouping and splitting will be possible cause it will be based on the Environment.
    To create a good environment scheme is not easy cause you have to think about the Note ON/OFF message control. I.e if you have some playing (held down) notes and you switch to another instrument via PC then the note OFFs of the held notes will go to the "last played" instrument and you will have terrible hanging issue (this scheme is known as "Cable Switcher" or "Transformer Channel remote control"). Another way to fix that is to send "All Notes off" after each PC switching but this will interrupt your musical play and will not behave as the hardware program change switching.
    Just to clarify the "true hardware PC switching"... Try to play any chord on your hardware synth (which is a midi sound module or is connected to any midi sound module) and hold down the keys. Now switch to another Program change to recall some other patch (do not release the keys yet). After the new program change you will note that the patch is not changed cause you are still holding the keys. Release one of the keys and play a new note. The new note will be played using the new patch while the old held notes will still play the old patch etc. This is called "smooth musical patch change".
    I have created such Environment scheme (Logic Jammier Pro - supporting up to 256 preloaded instruments and retrieving them via bank and prog. change) during the Logic former times but never had time to release it officially...

  5. Realitybud

    Realitybud New Member

    Environment-based Program Change Handling

    Many thanks to you, Tangra, for your interest and engineering notes on this tricky area of Logic.

    Over several years I designed and developed a fairly complex special-purpose MIDI processing array (MPA) in the Environment of a much older Logic (LA Platinum 3.5), using Reason’s instruments via IAC buses, on a 400MHz iMac. (Awfully sorry but for now I must keep that “special purpose” confidential.) Only recently I got right up to date with a new 27” iMac and Logic Pro 9.

    Currently I’m developing my MPA further to take advantage of Logic’s own instruments and various other new (to me) facilities in Logic 9. None of my instruments – samplers and synths - are played directly via Track objects; all the Logic s/w instruments receive all their MIDI via my MPA, and for each of my playable ‘virtual-virtual’ instruments there is a group or cluster of between 2 and 12 actual Logic s/w instruments. I’d already had to design around not having any proper MIDI Program Change in my old platform, so yes, I certainly recognize the problems and special considerations you’ve very kindly mentioned. I’d got as far as designing a “smooth musical patch change”, using various Environment objects to remember what Note Ons are active and where, thus deferring the musical changes until the respective Note Offs were received. Also, I had to include a programmable delay in this deferral mechanism, to cope sometimes with embarrassingly long ADSR Release times on notes.

    Alas, indeed it appears that the MIDI-programmable CS Performance setting facility in Logic 9 is not able to help me reduce my total instrument count. Nevertheless, I am most encouraged by news of your monumental 256 preloaded instrument scheme! My new iMac has the power and I really should invest in extra RAM, so that I can have plenty of big-cluster ‘virtual-virtual’ instruments pre-patched and available via a PC event-handling scheme in the Environment.

    Your kind help was much appreciated.
  6. Realitybud

    Realitybud New Member

    Atlas, all the instruments are Logic's own, and all are played via my MIDI processing array in the Environment - none receive their MIDI directly from Track objects. (See my main reply to Tangra)

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