1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Logic 9 Safe Scoring

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by mk3, Mar 10, 2011.

  1. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    To the scoring experts out there (you know who you are):

    Where exactly is score data stored? I want to be sure to score safely, that is, without risk of losing work. What is stored in the score set, the Logic project file, the region itself? What precautions should one take to save one's scoring work?

    For example, when one adds chord symbols, line and page breaks, other marks to a score, where do these reside? In the region itself? Will they be lost if one edits the MIDI in a region?

    The Apple documentation is not very clear on all this. The docs just state that one opens a score window, and goes at it, without really being concerned about saving and ability to recall the work. Before I spend hours marking up scores, it would be good to know that I won't have to repeat the effort!

    Thank you for any guidance!

  3. georgelegeriii

    georgelegeriii Senior member

    The score would be saved as part of the Logic song file (not externally), and it represents the region data content that is midi, so if you edit your midi data, you edit your notes in the score window.

    Simple ;-)
  4. sonnykeyes

    sonnykeyes Senior member

    I seem to remember that all score elements exist as midi events with specific bar/beat/tick locations, and if you look at the event list you'll see them listed as 'meta' events. The worst that can happen editing is that you'll snip a region and a score event that's close to the bar you cut on will be caught on the end of the region before instead of at the beginning of the latter region you intended.
  5. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    Thank you for the reply! So this includes data like lyrics, title of the score, and chord notations?

    All the best,
  6. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    Lyrics, chord symbols are in the region, but the title of the score (and any other text in the header or footer) and global markings such as 1st, 2nd time bar, time signatures, key signatures are not stored in regions, they are all global and are "somewhere" in the project.
  7. Pete Thomas

    Pete Thomas Administrator Staff Member

    Line breaks I'm not sure about.

    e.g. if you use the layout tool to force 8 bars into the first line, that isn't stored in the region AFAIK, because if you move that region to another track, or later/earlier in time on the same track, it reverts to the defaults.

    Interesting question.
  8. JuanTahnahmahrah

    JuanTahnahmahrah Senior member

    To safeguard your work, back up your project folder onto a USB drive, or other external drive. That way you can always re-load the whole shebang. Once your "score" is perfect, you can export a MIDI file, and the next time you load it into Logic (or Finale or Sibelius), the notes/rhythm values should appear correct.

    Whenever I produce a "Score" solely within Logic, I open three Logic editors simultaneously: the Score Editor, the Piano Roll (AKA Matrix) Editor and the Midi Event Editor. A second monitor, with a minimum of 1600 x 1200, is indispensible. That way the Score Editor gets its own screen. With the three editors linked, you can slide/lengthen/shorten the matrix editor graphic symbols to change the notation in the score editor -- or enter numeric values in the MIDI event editor and the Score Editor will reflect your changes. The PPQ in Logic is 960, so a four-four bar has 3,840 ticks: if you want to notate two beats of quarter note triplets, you enter their location per Logic's Event Editor protocol, with each one of the quarter note triplets having a value of 640. That is, half of 3,840 equals 1,920, which divided by three is 640. To locate the note you wish to edit in the Event Editor, you click on the note in the Score Editor, and the Event Editor/Matrix Editor will scroll to its location and highlight it.

    It is also possible to select your hemi-demi-semi quavers and drag their note values around directly on the score, but is a royal PITA. If you want to work strictly in conventional notation, I would suggest using a dedicated score editor like Finale or Sibelius. IMHO, the MIDI Event/Matrix Editors will let you fine tune your notation better than trying to slide stuff around in the Score Editor. In fact, when you work in Finale, they will be noticeably absent.

    I guess this presumes several things: first, knowledge of music theory and notational practice is a given. Second, if you can "play" your MIDI into Logic with a MIDI keyboard, you can save a slough of time. Thirdly, you will need to know how all three of these Logic editors work!
  9. zerobeat

    zerobeat Senior member

    The only score parameters that are NOT stored inside the Logic Project file are those found in Logic [menu] > Preferences > Score. These parameters are stored in the preference file found in ~user/Library/Preferences. These parameters are therefore global to any Logic Project within that particular user's domain. So if the Mac had another user login, they would have their own set of global preferences local to their domain.
  10. mk3

    mk3 Senior member

    Thank you to all for this very useful information! Does Apple have any official description of where these items are stored? I could not find it in the manuals, but perhaps I missed it. Or perhaps it's all in a tech note somewhere in the labyrinthe of Apple's support site?

  11. sonnykeyes

    sonnykeyes Senior member

    Apple got the program from EMagic long after this had been designed, so if EMagic didn't write it down anywhere, it's probably not available :)
    Anyway, the meta-events are easy enough to see in the Event List, the only things I don't know exactly where to look for (as Pete pointed out) are the Layout Tool operations.
  12. JuanTahnahmahrah

    JuanTahnahmahrah Senior member

    Johannes Prischl revised the Score Tutorial to Version 4.0 in October 1999. You might try emailing him to find out more. As of May 22nd, 2003 [!] he was still selling his manual.


    As part of the templates: Environment patches which allow you to trigger different sounds from the same staff/track (i.e.: for string instruments arco/pizz, for brass instruments muted/unmuted, woodwind doublings etc.)

    Sounds cool. If anyone has made a recent purchase of this, let me know.
  13. Ginger

    Ginger Member

    Some additional tips:

    The long and short user defined names of the instruments (as used in Score), the line breaks for that score set (both the complete and individual staff line breaks, as defined by the Layout tool), bracket info and Scaling percentage.

    Line break are also stored if you don't use Score Sets.

    Like someone said, everything you define in Preferecences - plus, your score (and other) key commands - are saved in your preferences file. You can also save export these key commands as a separate file, but Logic reads them from the preference file.

    Lots of info is also saved in the Staff Styles, including the distance between systems and between bass and treble clef in a piano staff (including if you only change these distance by dragging operations in the score window).

    The Staff Style changes you make are stored on a per project basis, meaning that they are stored in the project file.

    You can import Score Sets, Staff Styles, Text Styles and Score Settings from one song to another (in the Browser: select a project file, then click on "Import", followed by clicking on "Import Project Settings").

    The various "attributes" is saved with each note (which of course is saved with the project file). Then there's something that you need to insert a note first in order to be able to enter, but which will remain even if you remove that note..... I'll tell you what that is when I remember it. :)

    Print parameters are not saved with the song, so if you need or want to save certain setups, press ⌘P and save printer setup presets from the dialog that pops up. It's important to select your paper size before you start to tweak and format your pages in the score window.

    Some info is even stored "in" (or with) the manually entered (user) rests, so you sometimes need to enter a rest to get what you need to do done. But this info is of course also saved with the project.

    Quantization info is stored both in the region itself (that's quantization of the timing of the actual MIDI Notes), and in the Score editor. They can have unique settings. If you already have quantized a region to 1/8th notes before you enter the Score window, you can't bring back the smaller values by entering eg. 16th notes as your display quantize value in the score editor. Sometimes it's important to remember that there are two different places you can quantize notes to get the result you want. Both these quantize values are saved with the region, so - if needed - you can isolate a bar or two (make it into a unique region) and give it individual quantize values if you need to.

    The "Insert Defaults" (you'll see them if you click on the background in the score editor are saved per song, and not per region. This means that the defaults you set here, for events to be inserted, will be valid for all regions.

    The double lines etc. are inserted in regions, but not stored in regions, so if you move a region, the double line will stick to where they are inserted. The same goes for signature and key changes.

    Oh, and the default Staff Style for each instrument is saved in the Instrument itself. Look in the Arrange window, and open the triangle that shows more parameters for the channel strip.
  14. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    WOW, you guys got it pretty well covered.

    mk3, I think you just need to do your standard regular saves and backups and you'll be fine. As already pointed out, except preferences, everything is in the project.

    If you haven't done scores in Logic, a few tips:

    Interpretation: turn on if playing live, turn off if doing manual note entry.

    Each region has its own set of parameters. Don't hesitate to cut up large regions to get the look you need.

    The user rest is your friend.

    Paste at Original Position is a great key command.

    Create a unique staff style for each instrument. This takes time up front, saves grief at the end. I also create a unique score set for each instrument.

    Commit to separate projects for score and parts. Some people even do a separate project for each part.

  15. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Hey Doug,

    Just out of curiosity; what's the purpose/advantage of doing this?
  16. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    There's a few. This is a legacy thing for me - just got into doing it - it probably had more advantages at one time. What it allows you to do (and you may never need to do this) is have unique score set parameters assigned to the specific part. This allows you to scale independently, create unique name for the part etc. It gives you your own window to work in. I work this way and print from here. (And my 2 cents - if you doing many pages, I've found it faster to save as PDF and print those.)

    At some point, Logic allowed you to create a "temporary" score set and print parts by Option clicking (kind of a long click) on the score set pop-up menu. You then get a menu showing all the MIDI tracks in the project. Select one and then you get the part in its own window. You can format and print from there. It will show the track name - you might need to rename it.
  17. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    I haven't seen his book, but this can be done very easily without going into the environment if you have a patch with key switching and/or using a multi-timbral plug-in. I'm going to guess that these patches were created back in Logic 5 or whatever, and a lot of what was only available in the environment has now moved into the arrange window.
  18. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Hey Doug,

    Can you elaborate on this? I get the key switching part; which would be part of the software instrument. But how would you utilize multi timbral software instruments in Logic to trigger multiple articulations on one "track" without using the Environment?

    With the Environment I could imagine setting up some transformers to transform certain ranges on the keyboard to transmit on different MIDI channels. And then by using a dummy instrument in the Arrange Window that is cabled through the transformers and to the various discreet MIDI sub channel tracks of the multi, they would get triggered uniquely depending on the range. Or of course you could set up transformers to have some notes reserved for key switching route the outputs of a Cable Switcher to the various MIDI sub channels. But how else would you do it?
  19. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    Well, if I didn't misunderstand the question.......

    So, I have an instance of Play. I have violin and I need legato, staccato and pizzicato articulations on the track. I would load an instance of Play with a legato patch assigned to MIDI ch. 1; staccato, MIDI ch. 2; pizzicato MIDI channel 3. I would set the channel strip MIDI channel to ALL. I would then assign notes on the track to the respective MIDI channel needed for the articulation. Done......
  20. Doug Zangar

    Doug Zangar Senior member

    This would only work after the fact of note entry - or you would have to think ahead and change channels either from the controller or in the environment. I'm ok with playing a "wrong" articulation in and fixing it post recording. This may not work for everyone...
  21. Eli

    Eli Senior member

    Hi Doug,

    Yeah, okay; that makes sense. It's not designed for real time entry with the different articulations though. That's what I was originally thinking of.

    Yeah, I'm with you - play it in with a single articulation and change them after the fact. That certainly is one relatively uncomplicated way to do it.

Share This Page