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Logic 9 Where the hell is the Value As parameter in L9?

Discussion in 'Logic 9' started by alienimplant, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    I'm going berserk here. It's still in the manual, but I can't find how to change my fader display to "dB" value instead of "Num" on an old song I pulled up.

    It's simple to do in L8 (see link below), but it doesn't seem to be visible in L9. Any urgent help appreciated.

    Thank you.

  3. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    Maybe because Logic 9 does no longer support the numbers? Would be a reason to take the setting away ...
  4. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

  5. Orren Merton

    Orren Merton Logic Samurai / Administrator Staff Member

    First of all, don't use what's in the manual as proof or disproof that an element exists in Logic 9. Clearly, the Logic 9 manual is an update of the Logic 8 manual, and not everything has been updated yet. For example, some screenshots still show the "Safety I/O Buffer" checkbox in the Preferences > Audio > Driver dialog, which was removed from Logic 9. That is one of the advantages of the searchable HTML manual—they can update these pages and screenshots as time goes on, and we all have a completely up-to-date manual without having to download anything new.

    That said, the "Val as" parameter, as Peter wrote and you've noticed, has been removed from Logic 9. Theoretically, that is because MIDI channel strips now all have numbers, and audio channel strips (including SI strips) all have dB values.

    That it's still in the manual is a bug in the documentation, and one they should fix ASAP to avoid confusion.

    However, if you are pulling up old songs in which the audio channels are in NUM mode, that is *also* a bug. They should all be in dB.

    Time to let Apple know via the Feedback page.

  6. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    Sigh, I was afraid of that (Value As removed). Thanks Orren. I'm discovering so many bugs, I'm getting irked at this point. I seem to be running into most of them in my work flow. It's quite an oversight, in my opinion, for Apple to remove a function and not consider the impact on songs that were saved in a different state based on a function that existed in Logic 8. In spite of my mounting wrath, I'll take the appropriate step to send a feedback report. The list is getting long. :/
  7. HKC

    HKC Senior member

    Why don't you just open them in 8 and save them the Db setting. Obviously this is not ideal but it will probably work.
  8. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    Well, my original post was intended to verify that the function is really gone. People are sounding in and it sounds like access to this parameter is indeed gone. This idea has crossed my mind, and I will give it a try; although, I'm not sure what to expect now that it has been saved in L9 with some of the new plugins in use. Should be interesting whatever happens.

    I'm still ticked off though. I absolutely hate it when Apple deletes functionality, especially when they don't think about the ramifications first.
  9. zerobeat

    zerobeat Senior member

    Since there are more than 128 discreet viewable values for non-MIDI channelstrips in Logic9 (I count 220), it made no sense to keep the NUM parameter (which only allows the 7bit NUMber of 128 values).

    Keep in mind that the resolution of volume is still vastly more than this internally: it's just that Logic only allows us to see 220 of the values (in dB). It used to only allow us to see 128 of the values, whether in dB or NUM (even though behind the scenes, the resolution was far greater still).
  10. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    This seems to be referring not to arrange track parameters, rather, to environment objects, where a variety of parameters are available, including number and dB, as can be seen in this screenshot I just made in the L9 environment after creating a fader object:


    It does seem strange though if your old songs, opened in L9, are still showing the old format.

    kind regards

  11. zerobeat

    zerobeat Senior member

    The original post refers to non-MIDI ChannelStrip Volume only:

    Audio Track, Software Instrument, Bus, Aux, Input, Output, Master
  12. Peter Ostry

    Peter Ostry Administrator Staff Member

    In this case I want to take Apple's position. So many users complained about the coarse resolution of the volume faders. And many disliked that the faders snapped to odd dB values, not knowing that 127 numbers do not allow "good looking" dB values. Now we have a higher resolution and people can set good looking values. The 127 steps do not work any longer, they cannot.

    It is obviously a bug that the old scheme doesn't get translated to the new method when you open an song in Logic 9.
  13. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    Yes, however I was in fact referring to the link to a section of the Logic Pro Manual which alien implant posted:

    This seems to refer specifically to the environment, and as both Num and dB parameters can be appiled to environment objects, it seems to me that the documentation is in fact correct.

    kind regards

  14. Orren Merton

    Orren Merton Logic Samurai / Administrator Staff Member

    Agree with all of that. dB values is the only way to go to audio faders, and it's a bug if they come up as number values. I tried to repeat this myself using Logic 8 and Logic 7 songs, but all came up as dB values.

    Alien, what version of Logic are your earlier songs from? Logic 6 or Logic 5?

  15. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    Yeah, the example isn't exact, but that used to be available in the arrange parameters too, I believe. It's driving me nuts because I'm so used to dB now. :p
  16. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    Yep, i'm aware of that (it's interesting to read the specifics in your post though). I stopped using the Num setting long ago, but pulling up these old songs is exposing the bug. The whole problem here is that old songs come up with the old numerical system and there is no way to change it back. The strange thing is that the parameter is clearly still stored in the logic song file.
  17. Markdvc

    Markdvc Administrator Staff Member

    I just tried opening a LAWP 5.5.1 song in Logic 9, and yes, it is indeed showing Num values. I then opened the same song in L8, changed some tracks from Num to dB, saved and then and opened it in L9. Those tracks that I changed to dB show dB as expected in L9, those I left still show Num. I agree that dB values are the way to go, I haven't used Num myself for years, but leaving these values "stuck" in the Num format definitely should not be happening, I have sent this in to Apple as well.

    kind regards

  18. Petrosil

    Petrosil Member

    The old projects showing up with NUM values as saved may be intended behavior. The reason may be backwards compatibility. If you convert NUM values to the new dB scale you might not get exactly matching values, at least in the lower areas of the scale. The NUM scale has 128 steps, the new dB scale app. 240 steps.

    I remember that old channel strip types loading in new Logic versions was also the case for example with that old 4 band EQ hardwired to the channel strips (this was version 3 or 4). Old songs using that EQs opened with old EQ, while in new channel strips it didn't show up any longer.


  19. alienimplant

    alienimplant Senior member

    Thank you, Mark. The more the merrier when it comes to reporting errors to Apple. I'll be sending in a laundry list tomorrow. :)
  20. jrslam

    jrslam New Member

    Very interesting string. I'm using a scoring template created in Logic 8, and some of the audio and instrument faders show numbers and some show db. Guess I'll have to create a new template in 9 to compensate and at least get some consistency.

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