Logic Pro 9 Just switched from Digital Performer to Logic... A few questions...

[909one]

Hey there,
I'm new to the forum. I was a DP user of 8 years or so and I just made the jump from DP to Logic. I'm liking Logic 9 better in many respects than DP. Logic hasn't crashed on me yet, while DP crashed all the time. Also, I think Logic sounds better, there is a slight low-mid bump and I feel like the mix bus is much better... the stereo field is represented a lot cleaner... its more analog-like I feel.

I have to admit some features in Logic are not very logical at first. DP is set-up for people to easily move from the analog world into digital, but some things in Logic just don't make sense... or the features are not available in Logic maybe.

Here's a short list of things I have discovered, and while I have already done some internet research, I can't seem to find definite answers to my questions. So maybe you guys could help...

1. Is there a way to directly route audio to your interface from an audio channel in the mix window? It appears as if you have to route it through a bus, then out through that aux channel. That makes no sense. In DP you can simultaneously send audio from a track to as many outputs as you want.

2. In DP there is feature that lets you edit audio clip volume using a waveform to draw in volume points. I'm not talking about automation... This volume stays with the clip. Is there something similar in Logic? I couldn't find it.

3. DP has a feature that automatically detects and maps pitches for every audio file. You can access it easily right in the track. Is there anything like this is Logic?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Markdvc]

Hi there, welcome both to the LUG and to Logic

1. Is there a way to directly route audio to your interface from an audio channel in the mix window? It appears as if you have to route it through a bus, then out through that aux channel. That makes no sense.

It is not necessary to route audio through a bus to an Aux Channel strip, then to an output, although this often makes a lot of sense.
Simply select the output you wish to route your audio to. Perhaps the screenshot helps to illustrate this:

If OTOH you have groups of audio tracks and corresponding Audio Channel Strips, such as multitracked drums, it can make a lot of sense to have them all routed through a Bus to an Aux Channel, allowing you to ver easily adjust the overall mix volume of the drums using the Aux Channel strip fader.

In DP you can simultaneously send audio from a track to as many outputs as you want.

Nice feature - and perhaps this is were you may hav formed the impression that Logic as less straightforward, but this is also very easy to set up. One way would be to route to a Bus, have that bus feed several Aux Channel strips which in turn can each be routed to different outputs. You could also use channel strip Aux Sends to feed any number of different busses with your signal and have those routed through Aux channel strips as you may need:

2. In DP there is feature that lets you edit audio clip volume using a waveform to draw in volume points. I'm not talking about automation... This volume stays with the clip. Is there something similar in Logic? I couldn't find it.

Yes there is. Select an audio region, then, have a look in the inspector to the left of the main arrange area. You will see a gain parameter appear. Using this you can adjust the gain of a region between - 30 and + 30 dB:

Note that the selected region to the right determines what is shown in the inspector, even though a different track has been selected.

Kind regards

Mark

 

[909one]

Hi there, welcome both to the LUG and to Logic

1. Is there a way to directly route audio to your interface from an audio channel in the mix window? It appears as if you have to route it through a bus, then out through that aux channel. That makes no sense.

It is not necessary to route audio through a bus to an Aux Channel strip, then to an output, although this often makes a lot of sense.
Simply select the output you wish to route your audio to. Perhaps the screenshot helps to illustrate this:

If OTOH you have groups of audio tracks and corresponding Audio Channel Strips, such as multitracked drums, it can make a lot of sense to have them all routed through a Bus to an Aux Channel, allowing you to ver easily adjust the overall mix volume of the drums using the Aux Channel strip fader.

In DP you can simultaneously send audio from a track to as many outputs as you want.

Nice feature - and perhaps this is were you may hav formed the impression that Logic as less straightforward, but this is also very easy to set up. One way would be to route to a Bus, have that bus feed several Aux Channel strips which in turn can each be routed to different outputs. You could also use channel strip Aux Sends to feed any number of different busses with your signal and have those routed through Aux channel strips as you may need:

2. In DP there is feature that lets you edit audio clip volume using a waveform to draw in volume points. I'm not talking about automation... This volume stays with the clip. Is there something similar in Logic? I couldn't find it.

Yes there is. Select an audio region, then, have a look in the inspector to the left of the main arrange area. You will see a gain parameter appear. Using this you can adjust the gain of a region between - 30 and + 30 dB:

Note that the selected region to the right determines what is shown in the inspector, even though a different track has been selected.

Kind regards

Mark

Mark thanks for these!
I appreciate your time in helping me with this stuff.

Regarding sending audio--
I figured out how to get audio out of the channel from your first method already. But, it appears I will have to create busses and auxes to send audio simultaneously out while still sending through the main out. For example in DP I had the audio routed to the main mix, then at the same time I set one send to a headphone mix, another send to line out to reamp something, etc, etc... all on one track. It works the same in Logic I suppose, just one extra step. Actually in that regard its more like a real mixing board in Logic.

Regarding clip volume...
I did actually already figure out the the method you showed me for overall volume, but in DP you can actually draw in a volume curve, that's separate from an automation curve. Its a handy tool to have.

Just a general note, from the Midi perspective... Logic is waaaay better than DP. Everything is so easy to use. In DP its a PITA to set stuff and get the signal to flow correctly. In logic I literally turned on my midi keyboard and I was ready to go!

Thanks again!

 

[Markdvc]

Mark thanks for these!
I appreciate your time in helping me with this stuff.

Always a pleasure!

Actually in that regard its more like a real mixing board in Logic.

Indeed. Call me old fashioned, but having worked for many years with good old analogue mixing consoles, this is one reason why I personally find Logic's mixer architecture to be quite intuitive and very comfortable.

Regarding clip volume...
I did actually already figure out the the method you showed me for overall volume, but in DP you can actually draw in a volume curve, that's separate from an automation curve. Its a handy tool to have.

Yes, I can certainly see the uses in that, although that would tend to make it more complicated to keep an overview of volume changes. I think that with Logic, the idea is to use region gain to help match levels in different regions on a track, then use automation to make further continuous adjustments as a mix may require without having jumps in the channel fader position.

The sort of object based editing you are talking about is present to a greater extent in other DAWs (such as Samplitude) than is the case with logic. In fact, Logic's region gain function appeared first in Logic 9.

kind regards

Mark

 

[Pete Thomas]

Regarding clip volume...
I did actually already figure out the the method you showed me for overall volume, but in DP you can actually draw in a volume curve, that's separate from an automation curve. Its a handy tool to have.

Well, there is region hyperdraw. (arrange>View menu)I haven't used this for years as I now use track automation, but it works like that. See attachment.

Sadly I think if you draw a volume curve on a region with hyperdraw, it is an absolute volume, NOT relative to the volume in the mixer.

For that reason I just automate a gain plugin. We had a thread about that recently, I'll see if I can find it.

 

[909one]

Regarding clip volume...
I did actually already figure out the the method you showed me for overall volume, but in DP you can actually draw in a volume curve, that's separate from an automation curve. Its a handy tool to have.

Well, there is region hyperdraw. (arrange>View menu)I haven't used this for years as I now use track automation, but it works like that. See attachment.

Sadly I think if you draw a volume curve on a region with hyperdraw, it is an absolute volume, NOT relative to the volume in the mixer.

For that reason I just automate a gain plugin. We had a thread about that recently, I'll see if I can find it.

So with the Hyperdraw thing... you can draw the volume on the clip and then it won't actually move the fader, right?

See, I hate automation and try to avoid it at all costs. I don't like having to move volume points on a track aroudn to affect overall volume, if that makes sense. I like the fader to stay at one position the whole mix. that way if i need to make a fine adjustment in the overall track volume, its done with the fader. If you automate, and you want to change the overall volume, you either have to do it by bumping up all of the automation points or using a gain plugin, and i like to keep it simple. With clip volume adjustment in DP, I was essentially drawing in a mini-gain adjustment curve that was tied to each clip then controlling the overall level with the fader. If hyperdraw works the same way, I will be happy. I'll have to check that out when I get home.

 

[909one]

Sadly I think if you draw a volume curve on a region with hyperdraw, it is an absolute volume, NOT relative to the volume in the mixer.

Oh wait, I think I read this wrong... so you are saying the hyperdraw works independent of the volume fader? So in essence its overriding the volume fader? That makes no sense to have that work that way if that's the case.

 

[Eli]

Hyperdrawing in volume (CC7) info is not independent of the volume fader. It does control it. I believe that's what Peter meant when he said it creates _absolute_ volume automation. It is absolute volume the same way moving the fader is. Not "relative" volume ie: relative to where the fader is.


If you want hyperdraw to act independently from the volume fader, you could try hyperdrawing in Expression data (CC 11) instead of volume (CC7). That is, if the sound source you are automating responds to expression data.

 

[zerobeat]

1. Is there a way to directly route audio to your interface from an audio channel in the mix window? It appears as if you have to route it through a bus, then out through that aux channel. That makes no sense. In DP you can simultaneously send audio from a track to as many outputs as you want.

Every audio-domain track (audio, software instrument, aux) has an output destination slot just below where it says "I/O" in the mixer strips. Input is on top, Output is just below. You can directly route to physical outputs in your audio interface. You might be looking at SENDs, which don't route directly to physical outputs.

To route to multiple destinations, you'll need to route to a bus. Then create multiple Auxes that source the same bus, but that have different physical output destinations.

2. In DP there is feature that lets you edit audio clip volume using a waveform to draw in volume points. I'm not talking about automation... This volume stays with the clip. Is there something similar in Logic? I couldn't find it.

Each audio region has its own independent gain parameter (in the Region Inspector), but it's static (just an offset to the normal channelstrip volume).

You can also use Region HyperDraw for automation (which is attached to the region always), but this data is the same as the track automation. In other words, if you had Volume automation inside the region, as well as some volume automation concurrently on the track not attached to any region, they would be competing sets of data. However, note that there is an automation preference to MOVE track automation whenever an underlying region gets moved.

3. DP has a feature that automatically detects and maps pitches for every audio file. You can access it easily right in the track. Is there anything like this is Logic?

No, I use Melodyne for this. Is DP's version of this anywhere close to Melodyne? I don't even care about the polyphonic detection in Melodyne - just the monophonic detection suits me fine. Playing the wrong chord, say, on a guitar is rarely just a problem with a wrong note or two. It usually means that the player messed up in the sense of sloppily playing that wrong chord too, so fixing the bad note(s) still means it sounds lousy. So it gets played again or I steal the right chord from another instance in the song.

 

[909one]

No, I use Melodyne for this. Is DP's version of this anywhere close to Melodyne? I don't even care about the polyphonic detection in Melodyne - just the monophonic detection suits me fine. Playing the wrong chord, say, on a guitar is rarely just a problem with a wrong note or two. It usually means that the player messed up in the sense of sloppily playing that wrong chord too, so fixing the bad note(s) still means it sounds lousy. So it gets played again or I steal the right chord from another instance in the song.

I've never used Melodyne, but I did look at it on the website, and it appears its a more robust version of the DP thing. In DP, you don't have to render anything though, it renders it before you even open it up. Its really pretty amazing in DP. I use it a lot to subtly scoot vocal track pitches if they are sounding too off or if a bass player messes up a note, or something like that. It works the exact same way... it lays it out on a piano style scroll. I'm surprised Logic doesn't have anything like this... DP and Logic seem to go neck and neck with what features are available.

 

[zerobeat]

No, I use Melodyne for this. Is DP's version of this anywhere close to Melodyne? I don't even care about the polyphonic detection in Melodyne - just the monophonic detection suits me fine.

I've never used Melodyne, but I did look at it on the website, and it appears its a more robust version of the DP thing. In DP, you don't have to render anything though, it renders it before you even open it up. Its really pretty amazing in DP. I use it a lot to subtly scoot vocal track pitches if they are sounding too off or if a bass player messes up a note, or something like that. It works the exact same way... it lays it out on a piano style scroll. I'm surprised Logic doesn't have anything like this... DP and Logic seem to go neck and neck with what features are available.

If DP's pitch thing is not as good as Melodyne, and merely down to the level of Autotune or worse, then it is way way way way worth it to jump through the extra steps of instantiating the Melodyne plugin and using that different interface, and having to playback the song once more so that Melodyne can capture everything to be ready for editing.

Melodyne is incredibly remarkable.

DP's version is indeed more convenient, but for the amount of audio magic that this sort of process does, it's no big deal spending a little time on it. That's what we do. Nobody would ever NOT use their Melodyne plugin because "there's not enough time.... if only it was slightly faster to initiate the process like in DP!"

 

[CSeye]

At a glance, a comparison of various DAW indicates comparable features. But the devil is in the details of how features are implemented. Or how they're labeled? What menu they're located in? Or the key command?

Having moved around from VST 32 to DP to Logic, (and revisiting C5), the best advice is to simply roll up your sleeves and dig into the supplied documentation and purchase a comprehensive video tutorial. Being a tutorial junkie, I can tell that this is the best introduction to Logic 9: http://www.groove3.com/str/logic-9-explained.html