Autocomping TURN-OFF option PLEASE!

F

figgebass

Logician
I so hope it's just me who's missed the setting but I truely HATE the autocomping and foldering of audio in the arrange window.

For example , when I record bv's I make a cycle and then let the singer sing until I have enough takes while keeping in mind which ones to throw away or even delete regions from the arrange on the fly.
Since all recording , from cycle 2 and onwards , go on inside a folder I can't do that and sure, I am almost 40 so my memory may be degrading and all but I find it so much harder trying to keep in mind which of the 9 takes to delete when I also have to fiddle with the "unpack" thing and then figure out wheather I accidentally stopped before the end of the cycle , thus making logic create a completely useless autocompet track on top THUS keeping the last take at the bottom of the "folder" or if the last take was stopped in the right time to keep it at the top...while the take below that is the first(!?)...etc etc etc...

If I was to start using logic 8/9 as a newbie then I guess I'd just learn it BUT since I have been using Logic professionally , day in and day out, since 1997 I think I have the experience to say that the old option was way way better and why the HELL did they change?

If there are any pro's of the new way compared to the old then I would like to know because as it is now It's just making my work slower and that just kills creativity.
 
So, why not open the take folder as it is created and edit on the fly?
While you are recording the current take you are able to select any previous take and delete at your leisure. Also set it to autocolor takes if you need a visual reference.

Regards,
 
figgebass said:
I so hope it's just me who's missed the setting
Click to expand...

Nope, it's not there. Nor do I think it will be. However, if Takes folders bug you that much, you can always Unpack them.

For example , when I record bv's I make a cycle and then let the singer sing until I have enough takes while keeping in mind which ones to throw away or even delete regions from the arrange on the fly.
Click to expand...

Like Michael points out, you can still do this with Takes folders. It takes a total of one extra key command or mouse click to open a Take folder on the fly. So while the recording is happening, either mouse up to the disclosure triangle and click it open, or use the key command CONTROL F (disclose Takes folder).

With Logic 9, you have full editing potential inside Takes folders, in addition to the Quick Swiping from Logic 8. So there is nothing that you could do in Logic 7 and before you can't do in Logic 9, but there is much new stuff you can do in Logic 9.

Give it a try. If you want to work the same way, it's a single-keystroke difference. And you may learn to like the extra features.

Orren
 
Ok, thx for the tips.

if I have understood correctly , a folder isn't created until the end of the second cycle, right?
Then I guess I will have to wait until then to "open" the folder?
The thing is when I am for example recording backing vocals myself I don't really have brains enough to keep track of when I need to fiddle with the keyboard , not to mention when I record guitar or bass...So then this option is out....When I am recording someone else I guess it could work though.

Let me just ask you : Does anyone see this as BETTER than the way it was before 8 and if so please explain to me what the positives are because it seems I have missed some important clue here.

Thx

//Figgebass
 
figgebass said:
Let me just ask you : Does anyone see this as BETTER than the way it was before 8 and if so please explain to me what the positives are because it seems I have missed some important clue here.
Click to expand...

I will freely admit, it took me a while to accept and get used to takes/comping. I can honestly now say that there is nothing about the old method that I miss. IMO Takes/Comping in L9 is a huge improvement in every respect over "the L7 way".

My first suggestion is, don't worry about which parts were better while you are tracking - wait until you are finished, then you have peace and quiet and the ability to concentrate on and listen to each of them. Surely you owe it to yourself and your clients (if any) to do that? Having said that, I may take notes when tracking an artist, somethings like "take 3 bar 25 - good" or "take 2 bar 15 - remove".

Then, quickswipe the parts of each take you want - so much faster and easier than the old method of having to snip individual takes, mute or remove parts of them, unmute other parts. In Logic 9, the fun begins if you then need to copy or move parts of takes - you can now do this without having to flatten/merge etc.

As Orren mentioned, the chances of Apple reverting back to the old method are essentially zero, so it really does make sense to devote some time to trying out and hopefully getting to accept the new way.

kind regards

Mark
 
figgebass said:
if I have understood correctly , a folder isn't created until the end of the second cycle, right?
Click to expand...

Actually, that's just the visual representation. In fact, the folder track is created the moment the second pass begins. However, you don't get the graphic of the disclosure triangle until the second pass is complete.

The way to check this is to record one full pass, then after a few beats, stop recording in the middle of the second pass. Your takes folder will be truncated and a disclosure triangle will appear there.

The thing is when I am for example recording backing vocals myself I don't really have brains enough to keep track of when I need to fiddle with the keyboard , not to mention when I record guitar or bass...So then this option is out....When I am recording someone else I guess it could work though.
Click to expand...

To be frank, your first post and this one just don't add up. Your initial complaint is:

when I record bv's I make a cycle and then let the singer sing until I have enough takes while keeping in mind which ones to throw away or even delete regions from the arrange on the fly.
Click to expand...

So the fact is, for what you were complaining about comping your singer on the fly, the current method is far better, as Mark suggests.

Now you are talking about a new scenario, recording yourself, in which you can't keep track of when to "fiddle with the keyboard" in the middle of recording, especially when you need to have both hands on your guitar or bass. I completely understand this, as a guitarist. However, in this case, you can't edit on the fly anyway, unless you stop picking or fingering to use the keyboard, and if you do, you can certainly hit CONTROL + F when one take ends and another begins one single time.

In other words, I think you can make this system work just as well, and rather than complain, your time would be better spent simply committing CONTROL + F to memory, the same way that we (well, at least I) have committed COMMAND + S to memory, so now every time I look at the monitor, I save my project. I probably save my project every 30 seconds (unless I'm recording myself, then it's after the recording), it's like a nervous twitch. But my obsessive saving has saved me from losing work many times! :)

(BTW, I too am almost forty, months away in fact, so I don't consider age an excuse! :thmbup:)

Let me just ask you : Does anyone see this as BETTER than the way it was before 8 and if so please explain to me what the positives are because it seems I have missed some important clue here.
Click to expand...

I do. I think it's far more organized, I think Quick Swiping is excellent, colorizing on the fly, being able to group edit Takes tracks, etc. Think about it: lets say that in Logic 7, you recorded ten takes of a guitar amp that is miked with two mikes. So you have twenty tracks. However, the performances of each pair are identical, so the good parts from each pair will be the same. In Logic 7, this will be a bitch to comp, since all you can group is 20 unique tracks. However, in Logic 9, you can group the two mics, and if you swipe or edit something in track 3 of one mic, it automatically edits the other mic as well. And if you wanted to get silly and use one of one pair and one of another, you can always use the group clutch to disable the group momentarily then re-enable it.

And as I mentioned originally, if you really can't live with it, you can always Unpack the folder, so it's right back to the way it was. Absolutely nothing is lost (it just requires an extra key command to open or unpack), but a lot is gained.

Orren
 
I too wasn't that impressed at first with the auto comping but then I spend some time with it and now I can't imagine using the "before 8" method. Especially since 9 it's just incredible. Not just for vocals but for entire live takes done to a click it's just astounding. When using the grouping and phaselock features you can edit 24 track simultanously and after doing that, it it's done to a click, you can quantize it to fix whatever timing mistakes there may be left. It's just so cool and clever that it will eventually make most of us worse musicians but right here and now it can make even a pretty bad rhythm section sound great.
Like the other ones have suggested I would give it a shot. Everyone I have spoken to about this had the same thoughts as you at first but then they figured it out and haven't looked back since.

PS I am 46 years old, if it's a competition I'm leading now.
 
Can you tell me where to find the auto-coloring mode? Also I have been struggling with adding fade-ins/outs while in comp mode. Do you know of a way to do this? Thanks, Jamie
 
Autocoloring only works in cycle mode and you turn it on in a box in preferences (audio I think). Fade I/O I don't know, I seem to always flatten or move comp to a new track. I can see a problem because the fade files are connected to the actual region and not the folder.

PS I don't really understand why autocoloring only works in cyclemode it's a nice feature cyclemode or not and from time to time it does accidentally color a take which leads me to believe that maybe it wasn't supposed to work that way only.
 
In order to not have Logic automatically creating Takes folder for you, activate the Replace button in the Transport panel.
 
It places the takes on top of each other in cycle mode, and non-destructively removes underlying material in normal (non-cycle) mode. Not an ideal solution, but Takes has become so good in version 9 that I can hardly think of one single workflow type that isn't accessible with no more than one mouse click.

For example: Record 5 takes, with Takes mode active, and then press "Unpack" or "Unpack to New Tracks", and you're back to how things used to work pre Takes, aren't you?

Or: just keep the Takes folder, edit within this concept as far as you are comfortable with, and *then* unpack.

Check out the "Export Comp to New Track" and "Export Comp to New Track" commands...

You can also open the Takes folder on-the-fly, and colorize takes as they are heard. And by the way, I miss some features as well (eg. I miss a "Mark as good" feature all over theplace in Logic, eg. in patch lists, takes etc), but Takes has improved *a lot* since Logic 8.

I know all this can be confusing, but if you want to, just tell me excatly how you worked in Logic 8 and I can try to suggest the simplest way to do the same thing in Logic 9. DOn't forget that you now can use the Scissor tool, Fade tool, Marque, colorize regions etc. inside Takes.

Maybe they'll add a "Enable/Disable Takes" feature in the future, so people don't even have to ask these questions? I don't know. But once you get used to the good stuff in Takes, you may actually like Takes a lot.
 
figgebass said:
while keeping in mind which ones to throw away or even delete regions from the arrange on the fly.
Click to expand...
You can do that in Takes folders as well. If you hav activated "Marquee Tool Click Zones", you can even mark only a word or small phrase on the fly - and delete it. You can also make the nest takes eg. red on the fly. AT least for me, a good way to get a good overview is to remove the stuff I know I dont need before doing any further edits.

Remember that you can also create multiple comps (and give them unique names), or, for simplicty, once you have a comp you are more or less happy with: just export it (to a new track) and then keep editing.


PS - Also, check out tke key command called "Select Previous Section for Realtime Comping", which works on the fly.
 
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