Logic Pro 9 Capture last take not always working correctly

[daveyboy]

Here's a new one (for me). I'm working in a larger mostly midi only project where I have probably a good 20 plus vi midi tracks loaded as a template but not many are playing. When I use capture last take it is mostly flakey. It actually will create a midi take folder with the pass I just made split up in multiple takes along with an extra long note. Or, it'll make it a few regions. This happens in 32 or 64 bit mode, but, i'm trying out 64 on this particular project. The computer seems a tad slugish in general, not bad by any means but by what I'm used to with logic it seems to take a split second longer to respond. I'm assuming this has something to do with the amount of tracks I have setup. Once again, not much is going on at one time. The vis are exs, K4 (using it's own ram farm thing), omni and rmx (both latest 64 bit versions). I'm using about 2 gbs of memory within logic and over a gig in the 32 bit bridge.

 

[Doug Zangar]

I've been using it a little bit of late (32 bit only) with minimal track count and no problems. Have you tried it on a project that didn't come from your template?

 

[Sascha Franck]

Capture Last Take is entirely broken (when compared to previous versions) in Logic 9.

- Sascha

 

[daveyboy]

Capture Last Take is entirely broken (when compared to previous versions) in Logic 9.

- Sascha

Is this a fact? What has been your experience? In doing more work with it last night I found that sometimes it would work properly but not always. It would most likely create a midi take folder with what I just played spread out among a few takes. There would also be an extra (long) note in one take. Or, I would get 2 regions recorded that would overlap but I think that would sound OK. I've been using capture last take for a long time now, including this project. Prior to me adding all the extra midi tracks it was working great but that was when I just had one piano track up. Should I maybe try deleting some preference file or something to see if that clears it up?

 

[daveyboy]

Here's an example of the weird behavior. I'm still experimenting. So far on this particular project it misbehaves more often than not.

 

[Doug Zangar]

Until some more people chime in, it's hard to figure how badly and why it's broken. Like I say, it works for me on my laptop just fine, with minimal track count and few plug-ins.

It's still possible you have a corrupt project or perhaps your preference files are corrupt.

 

[daveyboy]

Hi Doug,
Just to be clear, the Logic prefs are in my home folder/library/preferences. I took out 3 prefs and restarted. I'm used to doing this stuff with DP but Logic is still relatively new for me in the trouble shooting department. I'll check it out to see if that makes a difference. No problems ever with any other project. In this one it's intermittent, which makes it tricky to pin point what's happening.

 

[Doug Zangar]

Hmmm, the fact that it's inconsistent within your experience in other projects and my limited experience with it kind of lends itself to the problem being that project. Corruption or an issue with tracks or plug-ins.

Or maybe it's really just screwed up per what Sascha has said.....

 

[Sascha Franck]

Is this a fact?

IMHO, yes.

What has been your experience?

Quite similar to yours.
CLT is working just about as "normal" (aka "as we know it") as long as you're in plain playback mode. But as soon as you're in cycle mode, the drama starts.
What you'll get is take folders all the time (even if you deselected that option in the MIDI recording preferences), occasionally overlapping regions (most often containing no MIDI information at all, so they're just an annoyance...), funny overlapping notes (can't reproduce but it's defenitely happening), etc. All kind of weirdness.
In addition, unlike in previous versions, the captured take isn't selected, which, at least IMO, is a serious bug - simply because you can't quickly quantize, loop, merge, whatever a captured take.
The fact alone that there's always a created take folder makes this new behaviour a deal breaker for me. I mean, there's the MIDI recording preferences, why in the world would they become invalid just because you're using CLT? At least the "flatten take folder" command is now working for MIDI (it wasn't in 9.02), but it's still completely awkward, especially as captured takes aren't automatically selected anymore.

Seriously, for me, personally, regarding CLT, the step from L8 to L9(.1) has been like from an absolutely freaking brilliant implementation of how to deal with MIDI recordings to an almost unuseable, partially bugridden feature.
Ever since I made the final switch from Cubase to Logic (which was during the L3 times), CLT has been one of *the* key features to stick with Logic. It's pretty sad to see this being messed up so much.

And FWIW, I can easily reproduce any of the mentioned issues on any Mac running Logic. Unfortunately, I have little hope this will be fixed properly, as it already survived the transition from 9.02 to 9.1.

- Sascha

 

[daveyboy]

From what I can tell it seems to work fine in "'normal" projects that don't have much going on. I'd love to hear from someone who is running some big midi projects (40 plus tracks) to see how it's working for them.

 

[Eli]

Hi Dave,

Here's a workaround that might serve you well: As Sascha says, there is some unpredictable behavior when using capture last take at the same time as take folders and cycle mode. Why not just create another track (pointing to the same channel strip) and do you playing/capturing on there. It's a simple key command to create tracks like this (option command return by default in the US with numeric keypad key command set) and will probably get you through your current workflow problem.

If for some reason a take folder is created on this new track (if you're in cycle mode and happen to hit the capture lat take command in the middle of a take that included two cycle passes) then just unpack the folder right away.

I know it's a kludge; but at least you can continue working. A couple of key commands (create the new track and possibly unpack take folder) and you'll be flying in no time 🙂

 

[Sascha Franck]

From what I can tell it seems to work fine in "'normal" projects that don't have much going on. I'd love to hear from someone who is running some big midi projects (40 plus tracks) to see how it's working for them.

As said, it never works "fine" (aka as usual) in anything using cycle mode.
Now, we could of course discuss the meaning of "fine/useful", but apart from the permanent creation of take folders (which should defenitely be defineable by a preference - or being related to the general MIDI recording preference), I fail to see any advance of the new behaviour. That's most likely because there's none, not a single one.

- Sascha

 

[daveyboy]

Thanks for your replies everyone. I think in my case it's only crapping out on this bigger project, cycle mode or not, doesn't make a difference. No issues on smaller projects. I'm about to start a new project with the same amount of VIs where I imported my instruments from the first project so will keep on using it there to see what happens. I know it's silly but I've gotten used to this way of working, but, I could go back to the "old" way where I actually hit record every time!:eeek:

 

[daveyboy]

Update: So today I'm working in the next song of this similar midi setup using capturing last take. Everything is fine until I start recording strings using Kontakt 4. I have my mod wheel setup to control the volume in the VI within Kontakt so I try an experiment. I do a pass without doing any controller data input and there's no issue. I then use my expression pedal instead, which is automatically making my volume changes and it's fine. I think there's something about controller data #1 in this particular instrument's setup that the capture last take doesn't like. Who knows. In the last song i had issues with drums and other things where I wasn't using the mod wheel so time will tell if this actually what my issue is. I'll keep testing and report back in a few days.

 

[Doug Zangar]

OK - did a little testing on my own.

It does indeed override MIDI recording preference and create a take folder when in cycle mode when mine was set to merge. I don't often use capture last take, and never in with cycle mode so I never had noticed this.



CC #1 has no detrimental effect. No actual plug-in was used or harmed in this test, I recorded on an empty channel strip.

 

[daveyboy]

Yeah, I guess it "doesn't like" cc1 being assigned to Kontakt4's instrument volume control. Even when I wasn't using the mod wheel it still gave me the take folder (not running in cycle mode and with extra midi garbage attached). When I got rid of the control on Kontakt's end it worked, and so far, continues to work (??).

 

[Sascha Franck]

It does indeed override MIDI recording preference and create a take folder when in cycle mode when mine was set to merge. I don't often use capture last take, and never in with cycle mode so I never had noticed this.

Yeah well, if you usually stick with "traditional" MIDI recording, this has no impact. But personally, I almost can't remember the last time I pressed record for MIDI takes, unless I wanted to quickly record a pickup (in that situation, CLT has always been not exactly the best solution).
Seriously, CLT has been one of the "WOW!" factors that made me stick with Logic back in the days. Especially for drum programming, it has become one of the most useful features to be found in Logic, at least for me.
To quickly illustrate what I'm often doing when I need to come up with whatever drum/percussion pattern:
- Set up one track with whatever drum instrument (yeah well, obviously).
- Let Logic cycle and play around long enough to find, say, a kick/snare pattern I'm happy with.
- Use CLT once I'm happy.
- Press "q" (when it comes to drums, I usually quantize everything for a start, later on I may use certain other things, including non-quantized stuff, to "liven up" the performance). And probably just press "L" to loop.
- Use my "create new track using same channel strip" keycommand and continue with another part of the drum instrument, say, a hihat.
- Etc.
- When done with that, I usually just quickly select all the parts and merge them onto one track.

I find this to be a really cool and elegant method to create whatever rhythmic "things" in a heartbeat. And believe me, whenever I'm teaching Logic/sequencing classes, this is always one of the most impressive things to do.
Now, with L9, things still kinda work - but just "kinda". Created parts aren't selected anymore and I have to use the flatten take folders KC to merge them, too. You may now argue that these are two more steps only (select to quantize or whatever, flatten take folders before merging), but with the addition of the randomness that Logic creates empty (and partially overlapping the right cycle border) regions on top of the actual take folder, it's really getting quite annoying, time consuming and what not, especially given that this very feature has always been as elegant as I could imagine.

CC #1 has no detrimental effect. No actual plug-in was used or harmed in this test, I recorded on an empty channel strip.

I don't experience more (or less) problems when using CCs of whatever kind, either. And yes, I also tried with Kontakt (which still has some issues in Logic, no idea who's responsible for that...).

- Sascha