Logic Pro X FlexTtime & Pitch ~ Is it usable now (without horrendous artifacts)?

Radley

Logician
I got burned a couple of years ago using flextime to quantize some audio tracks ~ I was left with a huge amount of clicks and rather unnatural sound at the end of my efforts, and so I stopped using it altogether. Is it safer and more predictable to use now (Logic 10.24)?

Thanks in advance...
 

volovicg

Logician
Yes - I think it works great.
There are some details one needs to understand to ensure the full benefit - You can always ask questions here when something "appears" not right.
 

Pete Thomas

Administrator
Staff member
I agree, it won't always work exactly right out of the box, you often need to add/remove transient markers to overcome some ineviatable transient detection errors (depending on the audio). I find this especially with rhythm guitar or very busy drums.
 

Radley

Logician
Yes ~ Rhythm guitars gave me the most grief! (the drums were from a machine). Thanks guys for your responses! ;) It sounds like I need a better understanding of how the whole audio editing process works. When I started using Flextime I envisioned it would work as simply as using midi quantize, and I ended up with ruined tracks ~ I simply could not get them back to their original purity of sound (I figured undoing & turning off Flex would get me there, but it didn't).
 

Pete Thomas

Administrator
Staff member
Yes ~ Rhythm guitars gave me the most grief! (the drums were from a machine). Thanks guys for your responses! ;) It sounds like I need a better understanding of how the whole audio editing process works. When I started using Flextime I envisioned it would work as simply as using midi quantize, and I ended up with ruined tracks ~ I simply could not get them back to their original purity of sound (I figured undoing & turning off Flex would get me there, but it didn't).
Ok, well often you will get transients due to odd clicks or amp noises that you don't want to be quantised. so by reducing the number of flex markers you will ofetn lose these. If not then you need to check through the wave file and erase erroneous markers manually.

Note that if, for example, you are quantising to 1/8, you don't need any markers that are more frequent than that.
 

Radley

Logician
Do you guys feel it is best to work on a copy of the audio file, never the original ~ And if so, does this imply that there is always a chance of Flex altering the original file destructively?
 

volovicg

Logician
flextime is non destructive - So you can always get back to the original by right clicking and selecting reset flex markers - then turning flex off. Always a good idea to have backup copies - but the need is not driven by the inability to return a flex'd region back to the orignal.
So if the work is important... make the copies for many other reasons. No it does not imply that....
 

Radley

Logician
OK ~ I would like to try my hand at moving all the markers manually, but I would like to do it at full resolution with no snapping... total 'freehand'. Please tell me how to achieve this!
 

volovicg

Logician
tell me what the goal is first so I can understand how to explain it. If by moving all the markers you mean time stretching the entire region longer( slower) or make it shorter ( faster) - you only need to click in the upper right hand corner ( or left hand corner) and stretch the region ( free hand, with snap off if you like)...
I also suggest you watch a few youtube videos on flex time.....
 

Radley

Logician
volovicg ~ I want to move individual markers within bars to correct minor timing errors or interpretation, with snap off so I can make it sound like I hear it ~ that's all. It's not that my performances are not good enough... I am just aiming for something ultra-perfect, more as an effect.
 
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volovicg

Logician
OK great. What is this song recorded into logic or was it recorded outside of logic and you dragged it into logic ?
 

Radley

Logician
Recorded in Logic ~ Is it the 'snap to transients' setting what makes it feel like I can't place the marker exactly where I want, and is it dangerous to turn it off? (artifacts, clicks etc)
 

Pete Thomas

Administrator
Staff member
My experience is that adding a flex marker doesn't snap to anything, it goes where you place the mouse pointer, except that if it is very close to a transient marker it will snap to that. I'm also not aware of any snap setting that will make it always snap to (presumably the nearest) transient marker, although I think that might be useful so if it does exist I'd like to know.

The behavour of snapping to a very close transient marker is why I often like to reduce the number of transient markers in the waveform (file) view, or edit their positions there before adding flex markers to the outside of the region.

However I'm a bit confused as I thought the thread is about quantizing. Moving flex markers to change timing is not the same thing as quantising. For quantising you don't actually need flex markers at all, you just need to make sure all your transient markers are where you want them (and that there are no extraneous ones where you don't).

So for example:

1) if a rhythm guitar is playing basically swung quavers (1/8 notes) but not continuous so there are some spaces. In those spaces there can be odd plectrum or amp artifacts that get a transient marker but you do not want those included in the quantise, then they should be removed because they are randomly placed sounds not part of the quantise grid.

2) you might get a flam on a snare drum, so the initial first stroke of the flam is befre the beat. However it is likely to get a transient marker so that should be erased or moved onto the beat.

This is what I find is the main cause of flex (quantise) not working as you would like.
 

Radley

Logician
Thanks guys ~ Snap edits to *zero crossings* is the feature I meant to say instead of snap to transients... My Bad! I believe this setting causes your selection to not always go where you might want it, although the positive side is no clicks or pops, right?
 
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doofus

Logician
flextime is non destructive - So you can always get back to the original by right clicking and selecting reset flex markers - then turning flex off.
I know this is an old thread, but that simply isn’t true. I’ll never flex something without having a backup of the entire project..got burned too many times.
 

Pete Thomas

Administrator
Staff member
I know this is an old thread, but that simply isn’t true. I’ll never flex something without having a backup of the entire project..got burned too many times.
Me too, but then you must always have a backup (or two) of all projects. So many things can burn you. Ouch!
 
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