Hierarchy Button in Piano Roll ed.

On page 65 of the manual, it says that clicking the hierarchy button on the Piano Roll editor will display the contents of all tracks in the Arrange page.

If I could do that ( plus excluding the muted regions from such display) it would be very convenient to toggle back and forth between editing one part and how it is in relationship with an ensemble.

If there is a hierarchy button, I can't find it. Is it in a different place that usual? I do have visual problems.... Let's get one, and have it do just what it says, also with the ability to hide muted tracks and/or regions.
How do you organize ensembles in piano-roll?

There is no hierarchy button in my piano-roll. There is one in the event-editor that will show the regions which are in the arrange-window.
How do you want to have it, you can't edit notes topped onto each other in the piano-roll? so do you want a full piano-roll window split in channels sort of?

I have visual problems all the time. L8 is influenced by 'iPhone applications' but you don't work with an iPhone app. on you desk for 8 hours. It's an ergonomic disaster for my strained eyes. Black text on dark brown and then shrinked to fit the 20% of "everything in one window" no matter what, it's just puny.
I get it the way I want it by selecting all the regions (in arrange) I want to see simultaneously in one PR window. I use different colors for my tracks so it's a simple matter to check "region colors" under view, so I can easily tell what is what. Yes, with unisons or other aural events which are simultaneous there can be interference, but I work okay with that. But this is why it would be cool to be able to eliminate a region from being visually rendered in PR by simply muting it. Muting tracks/regions does work this way in Score ed. So helpful for me! I set up something to make that happen...LOL, now I can't find where I did that!! The hierarchy button works great in score. If I tweaked something in the arrange window that de-selects the other regions I'm working with, I just hit the hierarchy button and everything is back up again. What I don't want to see, I mute, and it doesn't get rendered.

No doubt you've experimented with all the display options for Piano Roll. I keep trying different combos. I pretty much think it's on the right track flexibility-wise, but I'm still tweaking it. Can't seem to get it just right. I'm going to set up one PR screen set with "region colors" and another without (for work on individual regions) and see if it's quicker to toggle between different editor windows. Screen sets is a powerful feature that I think can get close to emulating the way Logic was before version 8. Somehow, I don't use it as much as I used to, but when I had only one monitor, I was so important to get that organized and working optimally.
I can see the sense in that

OK. this is how I understand you: you want to edit the whole or parts of an arrangement but in a PR-window. In arrange-w's you move stuff, never edit notes, in this setup you would. You want to mute colours sometimes to hear the remaining ones. vice versa visually hide midi's to get hold of others to work efficiently.
BUT you want to stay in a PRW to do all of this.
Not using the one-window with open drawers to do it. Basically the opposite philosophy of the present.) Channel-colour mute/hide buttons would make it happen. There's a lot in the score-editor that should be implemented into the PR (different guys probably) so yeh, I would use it.
I'm doing a lot of ensembles and where you actually are -editing, is where all the functions should be. I see the obvious sense in that.

Peter Ostry

Staff member
I want it by selecting all the regions (in arrange) I want to see simultaneously in one PR window.
I do seldom use the piano roll but I don't think that what you want is possible. This is not the way a piano roll usually works although it would be convenient in certain situations.
Thanks for your comments on this. I think it seemed "Logical" to someone who helped produce the software to have a "hierarchy" button on the PR, because it made it into the manual (pg.65). This would be very convenient for me to have, especially if it worked just like the one in Score ed. What would really be great then would be if muted tracks and regions were not rendered if one so chose to prefer that they could be toggled off/on display wise. Here's hoping!
A bug then

Yes I know, I read page 65. I think if it's in the manual and is in other editors, it must be considered a bug rather than a wish. That would logically give you a strong case if you submit it as such to Apple so they can make it visible. If the guys here don't tell you where it is, then it isn't there. It's only in the books.

For me, doing ensembles, I would prefer an idea presented by someone here, of having the midi-rolls bigger, 'separate' but possible to edit. You could see a 2-3 rolls like expanded tracks and just scroll a little up-down to see the others. All of it with the possibility to hear 1 note, 1 track or all tracks together and hearing what it sounds like while writing ensembles.
Submit the bug to Apple and I will do the same.
I'm a little confused by this discussion however it seems to me what you want is there. If you select an assortment of tracks in the arrange and then open a PR you will see one track. Double clicking on the background will then display whatever tracks you have selected in the arrange and you can edit them all. (I thought this was something you needed to optionally choose in Preferences but I can't find it now.)
Hope this helps.
A little confused yes, we were kind of focusing on a couple of different things all in one go. What the submitter really wanted, was to see and edit all tracks but hide 'muted' notes and sequences. I guess your right about the edit in PR-window but hiding muted notes/regions is probably not possible. So instead he was reading page 65: Hierarcy- button in PR-window" but there's no button.
Let me try to add some insight to the existing features in Logic (not the wish list part). Some of this has already been stated, just trying to organize.

1) Regarding the hierarchy button, it was removed as mentioned on page 5 of the New Features in Logic Pro PDF document. This is not a bug.

2) You can select/de-select your regions in the arrange to have them show up in the PR editor. If you want to remove a region from the PR editor, shift click it in the arrange and it will be de-selected, thus removed. All other region will remain.

3) You can navigate levels in the PR editor by either dbl click in background (all regions shown) or to view one region, dbl click on note of region and it will take you to that region level.

4) The preferences for the score editor features of hide muted notes/regions/tracks are found in Score Editor>Layout>Global Format, towards the bottom of box.
OK the hierarchy-button is actually documented as gone then and hide-toggle is possible from the arrange window. As an alternativ to the wishlist there is the manual. There is lots of features so the book is well, big. That should clarify for him what he can do.//