Logic Pro 7 & earlier Layering Audio Objects

troubadour

Logician
Well, I have to admit that I'm not a fast reader. I received my copy of Logic 7.2 about 5 weeks ago, and I've been reading approximately a chapter a week, so I haven't got to chapter 6 yet, and didn't know about setting the channel type. Thanks for clarifying the difference between an audio channel strip and an instrument channel strip.

Actually, when I open a new project with Logic 7.2, I see not 2 but 3 types of tracks: Audio Tracks (labeled Audio 1-8), Audio Instruments (labeled Inst 1-8), and MIDI instruments (labeled 1 Grand Piano, 2 Polysynth, 3 Fingered Bs., etc).

I'm not inventing some private language here. It seems reasonable to me to refer to these as Audio Tracks, Audio Instruments, and MIDI instruments. If I click-hold a default track labeled Audio 1, for example, I see the subset Audio Track emphasized in bold type. If I click-hold a default track labeled Inst 1, I see Audio / Audio Instrument emphasized in bold type. If I click-hold a default track labeled 1 Grand Piano, I see MIDI Instr. / GM Device / 1 Grand Piano.

The difference between an Audio Instrument and a MIDI instrument is obvious. It's the difference between an Audio track and an Audio Instrument track that's got me mystified.

In Logic 7.2, the tracks labeled Audio 1-8 and the tracks labeled Inst 1-8 have almost identical channel strips. The tracks labeled Inst are associated with software instruments that are accessible via the Inserts button. However, the tracks labeled Audio 1-8 ALSO have an Inserts button. If I click on that Inserts button, I see a list of instrument categories: Voice, Drums, Acoustic Guitar, etc. What is the purpose of these instruments?

If I choose Voice / Female Vocal / Female Ballad Lead Vocal, for example, what exactly is supposed to happen? My experience has been that NOTHING happens. There is no sound associated with this option.

I stumbled on this because I was trying to create an Audio Instrument from scratch in the environment and didn't know about setting the channel type. Nevertheless, what is the point of this option in an Audio Track channel strip Inserts menu? Why is it even there, if this is an Audio Track, and not an Audio Instrument track? (This is Logic's terminology, not mine. It's right there in the menus.)

Anyway, I haven't tried recording audio, but if I do, will I find that these settings can change my vocals into "Creamy Lead Vocals" or "Rapper Vocals"? Can they change my recording of a guitar into "Silky Background Choirs"?

It seems like an honest mistake that I should think these menus list channel strip settings for Audio Instruments (software instruments), and expect them to make a sound when I play my MIDI controller.

An upgrade to 9 from 7.x is only $199. Not sure why you are hanging onto 7.
I'm using 7.2 because I was told in an earlier thread that I needed it to access my old Logic files created on a PC. When Emagic sold its operation to Apple, there was supposedly a transition period when PC files could be accessed and translated to Mac. So far, I've seen no evidence that this is true. There's nothing about it in my manual.
 

Markdvc

Administrator
Staff member
The difference between an Audio Instrument and a MIDI instrument is obvious. It's the difference between an Audio track and and an Audio Instrument track that has been confusing me.
Audio Track = playback or record Audio Files in WAV or AIF Format ( or in Logic 9, Apples .CAF format). These can be one recorded by the user as part of his project and can be any sort of audio such as Vocals, Guitars etc. In this way, Logic replaces the classical Studio Tape Recorder, at the same time allowing the flexibility of computer based audio recording, playback, editing and processing.

Audio Instrument Track = Playback or Record Midi to use with Internal Software Instruments such as the EXS 24, ES2, Sculpture or a whole variety of 3rd party Instruments.

An upgrade to 9 from 7.x is only $199. Not sure why you are hanging onto 7.
I'm using 7.2 because I was told in an earlier thread that I needed it to access my old Logic files created on a PC. When Emagic sold its operation to Apple, there was supposedly a transition period when PC files could be accessed and translated to Mac. So far, I've seen no evidence that this is true. There's nothing about it in the manual.
Logic 8 and 9 can open any Logic files from Logic 5, 6 or 7. In order to access files from earlier logic versions, you need to first of all open and save these in Logic 5, 6 or 7. After that you can use them in Logic 8 or 9. Conversion therefore only needs to be done once.

kind regards

Mark
 

troubadour

Logician
Logic 8 and 9 can open any Logic files from Logic 5, 6 or 7. In order to access files from earlier logic versions, you need to first of all open and save these in Logic 5, 6 or 7. After that you can use them in Logic 8 or 9. Conversion therefore only needs to be done once.
My earlier files were created with Logic Audio 3.5, so I purchased Logic Pro 7.2, but I don't see anything in the manual about how to open files on a PC with a Mac.
 

Eli

Logician
In Logic 7.2, the tracks labeled Audio 1-8 and the tracks labeled Inst 1-8 have almost identical channel strips. The tracks labeled Inst are associated with software instruments that are accessible via the Inserts button. However, the tracks labeled Audio 1-8 ALSO have an Inserts button. If I click on that Inserts button, I see a list of instrument categories: Voice, Drums, Acoustic Guitar, etc. What is the purpose of these instruments?

If I choose Voice / Female Vocal / Female Ballad Lead Vocal, for example, what exactly is supposed to happen? My experience has been that NOTHING happens. There is no sound associated with this option.
You have it right - nothing is supposed to happen. When you call up channel strip settings on an audio track, it calls up a preset suggestion of plugins to use to process that type of audio material. So, if you were recording a female ballad lead vocal, Logic is suggesting that those plug in settings would be appropriate for that type of audio material. Nothing happens on an audio track unless you play audio back on it. Calling up a channel strip setting doesn't change this; it merely calls up a list of suggested effects processing plug ins.

And BTW, not to be anal here, but this field shouldn't be referred to as an "insert". Inserts are the fields where you actually call up the effects processing plug ins. The field where you are seeing the channel strip settings is called "channel strip settings" :) (seriously). When one is called up, it then in turn brings up plug ins in the insert field.
 

troubadour

Logician
Okay, I get it.

When I tried to create my own Audio Instrument on a new layer in the environment (instead of using one of the ready-made Audio Instrument channel strips on the ready-made Audio Layer), I was acutually conjuring up an Audio channel strip and not an Audio Instrument channel strip because I didn't know that I needed to set the Channel function to Instrument.

But, I don't want to take all the credit for this confusion. The terminology in Logic 7.2 isn't always user-friendly. The Channel menu in Logic 7.2 refers to Audio Instrument tracks (and their associated channel strips) as Instruments, and it refers to Audio tracks (and their associated channel strips) as Tracks, so the choice between straight up Audio and Audio Instruments is not immediately obvious.

Not knowing that I was looking at an Audio channel strip, I thought that all those instrument names were Audio Instruments (software instruments). It never occurred to me that effects processing plug-ins can transform a simple vocal track into anything from a Ballad Lead Vocal to Pop, Rock, and Rapper Vocals. And I don't remember having this capability in Logic 3.5 (18 years ago in 1992, when I was 44 years old). Nevertheless, I am really jazzed about the possibility of using the Rapper Vocal effects processing plug-in to transform all my music for the Song of Songs into a Rap version of the Song of Songs. (Ha. Ha.)

So, I set up my mic today, and recorded some audio. Too bad I didn't do this weeks ago because then I would have been familiar with the different list of channel strip settings associated with Audio, and would have been less likely to confuse it with the list of Audio Instruments (software instruments).

You have a tough job. It can't be easy for an expert to see a problem through the eyes of a novice.

Just for the record though: In Logic 7.2, the button (or field) for calling up channel strip settings is labeled Inserts on both Audio and Audio Instrument channel strips. When I click on the Inserts button (or field) on an Audio channel strip, I see a menu that refers to channel strip settings only. There is no reference to effects processing plug-ins in this menu. No distinction is made, in Logic 7.2's nomenclature, between effects processing plug-ins (in the Audio Inserts menu), and Audio Instruments (software instruments) in the Audio Instrument's Inserts menu. (Once again, I am using Logic 7.2's own terminology. Everything in bold is from Logic's own nomenclature, not my own, newly invented, private language.)

song-of-songs.net
songofsongs.com
 

Peter Ostry

Administrator
Staff member
The terminology in Logic 7.2 isn't always user-friendly.
This is true.

You have a tough job. It can't be easy for an expert to see a problem through the eyes of a novice.
We can't, we depend on the problem descriptions. As you talked about the different channelstrip settings lists (and fortunately told us what you see there) it was pretty clear that you are on different audio objects. The hard part was to convince you of that ;)
 

Eli

Logician
Just for the record though: In Logic 7.2, the button (or field) for calling up channel strip settings is labeled Inserts on both Audio and Audio Instrument channel strips. When I click on the Inserts button (or field) on an Audio channel strip, I see a menu that refers to channel strip settings only. There is no reference to effects processing plug-ins in this menu.
Ahh yes; its coming back to me now - it's been so long since I've used Logic 7. And now that you mention it; I recall that that is one of the reasons channel strip settings were so obscure and well hidden in Logic 7!
 
You have a tough job. It can't be easy for an expert to see a problem through the eyes of a novice.
Logic has a bewildering learning curve. Each most likely wanted to forge ahead without reading the manual first. I have worked through many tutorial manuals and still have to refer to the reference section whenever I get stuck. The 4.8 manual was daunting. When I saw the splash screen for Logic 8, it was like the clouds cleared.
 
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