Logic Pro 9 LFO control of Plugin Parameters?

alienimplant

Logician
Is there a way to create and assign an LFO to (for example) the Wah Pedal cutoff filter in Pedalboard? If this is possible to do in the Environment, I'd be happy to do it. I'm not interested in responses that use automation or external controllers. I just want to know if there is an internal way to route an LFO, or envelope to a destination plugin parameter. My current understanding is that this is not possible. Anyone?

Happy New Year!
 

1000db

Logician
Hi.. i bumped into this thread while googling around trying to archieve the exactly same thing you guys are talking about. Especially interested how to create lfos to control plugin parameters. I started using logic about a year ago alongside fl studio and i would really miss this feature in logic.

The method Fl studio has, works by clicking the plugin's button and selecting "link to internal controller" There's many types of internal controllers to be used; Audio to controller data (envelope follower), plain lfos, lfo's that can be generated with mathemathical formulas, midi notes (with selectable values) to controller data, midi triggable envelopes, etc. And it's all modular, you could for example create two lfo:s, lfo1 linked to plugins cutoff, and lfo2 modulating lfo1's rate.

The downside of fl studios method is that you can't actually see any cables so when you open a old project that you don't remember that well anymore, you get really lost about what kind of internal modulators you have set up.

This is where logic would REALLY shine. If logic just had the lfo's straight in the environment and you could make all the cabling there. Of course the way mixer tracks holding the plugin are presented, would maybe be better if presented slightly different way, they could for example have multiple "inputs" for internal controlleres, and each one of these internal controller inputs would have a dropdown menu to select the (plugin's)parameter which you want to control with the data that is coming in.

Someone mentioned about the combination of metronome and transformer. This sounds good. Would need some kind of macro though, wouldn't like to configure the transformer everytime i need a lfo. Btw the only thing i've used trasformer this far was to convert midi data to hyper data and stuff like that. So if someone has more detailed information about setting up the transformer object for this scenario, i would really apprecciate :)

Have you guys ever tested this one? http://www.mucoder.net/hypercyclic/
Maybe it's using the methods someone here described earlier.

Something from the bottom of the page:

""""How do I configure the AU MIDI output?
This technique applies to the AU plugin version, but can also be used from VST and standalone versions. First, within the midi to combo box, select Configure... The midi device settings dialog box will appear. Check one or more of the midi output devices you like to send midi to. Then set the midi to combo box to one of these selected output devices. If the device is named IAC driver... then you can use this device elsewhere as input device and receive the hypercyclic output that way."""
 
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Peter Ostry

Administrator
Staff member
If logic just had the lfo's straight in the environment
It doesn't.

Someone mentioned about the combination of metronome and transformer. This sounds good. Would need some kind of macro though, wouldn't like to configure the transformer everytime i need a lfo.
I am afraid you have to do this yourselve. You may find some old LFO macros but most likely they do not work in newer Logic versions or they are not exactly as you want your LFO. You need quite a lot of knowledge to make an universal LFO and overall, with all preparation, beta versions, explanation, a small manual and all this stuff it would take between a week and a month to develop a good system, which would be a bunch of macros. I suppose nobody wants to make this just for fun, rather for money ;)

if someone has more detailed information about setting up the transformer object for this scenario, i would really apprecciate :)
Basically you use transformer maps for the waveforms. Preferably with a different number of waves to be more flexible with the tempo. Keep in mind, that in Logic the only way to trigger a LFO in the environment ist the song tempo and this is very limiting. Once you have a transformer map, you can take a SysEx Fader (can be a button or something else) and let it send values from 0 to 127, which is one full cycle through the map.

Since your time base is the song tempo, you don't have enough pulses to build waveforms, not even for a slow LFO. You have to duplicate and delay the metronome events but the environment delay is not clock-, but time based. You have to adopt the delay to the song tempo. Next trap: the environment delay is not controllable by Meta events, so you cannot automatically set it for a certain tempo. You need a series of delays and select one manually, that fits for the situation. I think I can stop now, right? :)

Of course you can add more transformers to set the lower and upper limits and probably use scaling and expression curves. Another thing is automation. And controlling by an external device if needed. And a kind of preset storage. And so on ...

Have you guys ever tested this one? http://www.mucoder.net/hypercyclic/
I did not know it and it looks very interesting.

Plogue Bidule can also run as an AU plugin and is a powerful application. I am not sure yet if it has LFOs but am pretty sure that it does.

Although LFOs are possible in the Logic environment (and I've created a couple of them), today I would rather use third party software. Either this hypercyclic you found, or Bidule. This kind of software is not expensive and can do much more than you could ever do in the environment. The next step would be external software like Max/MSP.
 
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bobdemaa

Logician
I've been experimenting with Thesys from sugar Bytes. I really like all of their stuff.

Thanks for the hyper cyclic tip. I'll be checking that out.
 
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1000db

Logician
But actually you could put a test tone plugin and tremolo plugin before this plugin and there you have a midi lfo... (just control the tremolos rate)
 
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Per Boysen

Logician
A MIDI LFO can be built in the environment. I've downloaded many such in the past, but none seems to be part of the recent year's project's environments.

If you were talking about the Bidule AU running Bidule's LFO Group that is not a "MIDI LFO" but a LFO that can target objects inside the Bidule system. The Bidule system runs inside Logic's when a Bidule AU is opened somewhere in the Logic project. In order to control an AU Plugin's parameter you need to open that AU Plugin inside the Bidule AU and carry out the routing there. I can't guarantee the stability because when I have done this I have had several sudden crashes. But most software tends to get updated so one day it may work in a stable manner... :)

Thanks for posting that Blue Cat Audio example link! And interesting tutorial.
 
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alienimplant

Logician
Ah, bummer. There goes the whole fn reason I bought it, lol. Thanks for the added clarity. I thought it could send controller data to a target plugin. At least I love NI's Guitar Rig. Its modulation routing is to die for; and now that the plugin is true stereo in and out, you can use the filters and effect coupled with the built in modulation for all kinds of wonderful things other than distortion. The wawa pedal in GR is VERY good.
 
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1000db

Logician
A MIDI LFO can be built in the environment. I've downloaded many such in the past, but none seems to be part of the recent year's project's environments.

If you were talking about the Bidule AU running Bidule's LFO Group that is not a "MIDI LFO" but a LFO that can target objects inside the Bidule system. The Bidule system runs inside Logic's when a Bidule AU is opened somewhere in the Logic project. In order to control an AU Plugin's parameter you need to open that AU Plugin inside the Bidule AU and carry out the routing there. I can't guarantee the stability because when I have done this I have had several sudden crashes. But most software tends to get updated so one day it may work in a stable manner... :)

Thanks for posting that Blue Cat Audio example link! And interesting tutorial.

You're welcome... Devastated about your reply though :/ Can't this really be done in bidule because i was dying to test the bidule AU version of the plugin... :( have you actually tried to convert the lfos in bidule to midi and route them to bidules midi out? (which show up in environments physical inputs...)
 
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alienimplant

Logician
From what I've seen, environment LFO examples were anything but savvy. The last one I saw looked like a step sequencer of sliders and was extremely complex. Even if Apple put some very simple tempo-synced LFOs and modulators in the environment, I'd be deliriously happy. But these massive environment sets just aren't worth fussing with to me, so I turn to other solutions. The wish list item for a midi "plugin" solution is still my number one fav idea out there though.
 
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alienimplant

Logician
You know, frankly I'm also surprised by the suggestion that Bidule cannot send MIDI data via LFO to an instrument. Seems like it would be elementary in that environment.
 
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Per Boysen

Logician
have you actually tried to convert the lfos in bidule to midi and route them to bidules midi out? (which show up in environments physical inputs...)
No, I have only used it for setting up "freeze reverb" processing. That's what turned out less stable. But you may of course run a Bidule AU that contains the LFO Group and inside that Bidule AU you also convert the LFO to MIDI - synced or not to song tempo - and send it out through some of the "MIDI Device Outputs" listed by Bidule. Same MIDI port in the Environment would deliver the MIDI, I guess. But please note that I have not tried it out. If you're seriously interested you should post this question on the Plogue Bidule forum - I bet some of those genius hackers will be happy to explain it more, and correctly.
 
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1000db

Logician
Yeah thesys doesn't do it either, tried it

With peak meter pro you can actually archieve the lfo as i described:
testtone->logic tremolo->peak meter pro->

sends the midi data directly to environment from the channel that the plugin is set up on...

whatever, already created a tempo synced environment lfo. took couple of days but at least i don't have to spend rest of my life looking for AU-lfo which is apparently too challenging for someone to create.
 
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Per Boysen

Logician
Hi,

I just bumped into this thread again after two years! Sadly nothing has happened regarding global LFO etc in Logic. But since Numerology has currently put out an AU plugin I've been using that one for everything from simple LFO waveforms to advanced step sequencing (in Logic). One exciting area is to change the LFO frequency while the music is going and for doing that one can simply record automation in Logic for the Numerology plugin. Here's a related example track where I used the Num AU to generate "modular step sequence MIDI" for a bass synth. The same bass line pattern is running all through but at the middle of the piece the tempo division for the AU plugin is being automated in Logic to create that "wobbling around, catching up" part. The bass line suddenly appears to switch tempo while the rest of the music is going straight http://soundcloud.com/pboy/faster-inside

In case someone want to check out more: http://www.five12.com/index.html
 
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