Logic Pro 9 Logic vs. Pro Tools?

R

robgb

Logician
I've used most of the major DAWs in my time. I started with Cakewalk through Sonar 2, moved on to Cubase/Nuendo, then finally got tired of dealing with all the PC driver issues and switched to Logic, starting with 8 and am now using 9.

I haven't looked back since. Logic to me is everything a DAW should be and much, much more.

Yet everywhere you turn, all you seem to hear out there is Pro Tools, Pro Tools, Pro Tools. It is, and has been for some time, the industry "standard."

Mackie's release this year of firewire mixers that work with Pro Tools was heralded as a huge breakthrough, blah blah blah. All I wanted to know, does it work with Logic.

Anyway, long story longer-I've never used Pro Tools. Never really seen it other than a few screen caps and in music stores. And I have to say, I'm curious. Is it really all that everyone says it is?

How, when it comes down to it, does it compare to Logic? Or should they be compared at all?

I honestly can't imagine a better DAW than Logic 9, which I love dearly. But am I missing something? Should I perhaps have both?
 
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Are you looking for a comparison between Logic and the various lower priced products such as Pro Tools M-powered and the 003 versions, or with Pro Tools HD?

kind regards

Mark
 
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I've used both for about 15 years. Digidesign, now AVID has always had extremely aggressive marketing. I don't really have the time to go into a list of pros and cons, but if you are a logic head, and writing music? Then in my not so humble opinion Pro Tools will drive you mad. The grass is definitely not greener on that side of the hill.

don't get me wrong, Pro Tools is as capable ( or could be given all the ways the company sets about crippling the damn thing ie. no plug in delay compensation for LE and MP ) But Logic is for me where I do everything now. Mix and compose. I sold off my entire HD3 rig last year and keep an MPowered version handy for moving sessions over to Logic.

Don't believe the hype. You'd be better off checking out Cubase or Nuendo if you wanted to see other direct Logic competitors. Especially Nuendo, that's a beast of a package and every bit as expensive as blow tools.

bd
 
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Markdvc said:
Are you looking for a comparison between Logic and the various lower priced products such as Pro Tools M-powered and the 003 versions, or with Pro Tools HD?

kind regards

Mark
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Well, I doubt I'd ever get into Pro Tools HD, but I'm curious to know what all the fuss is about.

M-Powered is the one that can be used in conjunction with the Onyx mixers.
 
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bobdemaa said:
You'd be better off checking out Cubase or Nuendo if you wanted to see other direct Logic competitors. Especially Nuendo, that's a beast of a package and every bit as expensive as blow tools.
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I used Nuendo for a number of years, through version three. It's a very capable application and was my main axe--until I tried Logic. I had no real plans to use Logic at first. I'd just bought a Mac and was curious about it, so I bought a copy and immediately fell in love.

Logic is a billion times more intuitive than Nuendo could ever hope to be. Yes, Nuendo is a fine program, but after twenty minutes with Logic, I knew I'd found a home.
 
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Well you'll get no argument from me regarding Nuendo, but it's got more going on for it than PT.

Honestly the only fuss about PT, relatively speaking, is that it was one of the first major DAWs and like I stated earlier, had / has very aggressive marketing. You'll likely hear more fuss as time goes on as well because AVID is hell bent on targeting any and every school offering audio and video programs. They are doing everything they can to ingrain themselves into the collective psyche of anyone making music or movies... It's a good business plan. Just wish they were as good at making software...

I've used, worked and mixed in everything. For me Logic feels the best and though it has it's quirks, they all do.
 
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Well, I remember a time when Avid editing systems were the only thing anyone in Hollywood was using. Thanks to Final Cut Pro, however, that's no longer true. More and more editors have discovered FCP, and it's quickly becoming a standard (although I'd add that for video, I much prefer Vegas Pro myself).

I have a feeling the same thing will eventually happen with Logic.
 
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I have heard people say that audio editing is much faster and more intuitive in PT. Is that not true or not true any more?

Would it be helpful for me to have a low-end version of PT around for any of its features (other than transferring projects)? Would I even be able to use it? I'm currently using a Mackie Onyx Satellite interface, looking at either the Duet or the Ultralite mk-3.
 
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Well, I tend to look at it like this:

If you look at the history of DAW's in general, Pro Tools was the first real multitrack system that was affordable, and understandable. It wasn't designed for midi work, just audio, and had hardware DSP available at a time when computers didn't have the power that they do today.

It became like a Studer (I imagine only a few people will know what I'm talking about, so the rest use google and find out some of the history of the recording arts ;-) every "pro" studio that got into digital audio used Protools. There were other system, and some, like the RADAR, were based on hard drives and great A?D conversion, better than Digidesigns, BUT digi was already so far ahead once TDM became the norm, that it was very hard for other types of DAW's to really catch on.

Midi apps evolved into DAWS: Logic came from the Atari days, and in the beginning there was Performer on the Mac, Notator (one day to be Logic ) on the Atari, as well as SMPTE Tracks Pro, an awesome Midi sequencer that died off. Opcode, who had Vision, became the first 3d party app to add on direct to disc recording, and became the first audio/midi daw... Opcode also was the leader when it came to developing the midi spec we take for granted today, and standard midi files.

Over time, the whole scene evolved into today, where every DAW does midi, and direct to disc recording. Protools is the main Hardware and DSP based DAW, and in north america Logic is the big sequencer/daw with Cubase being the leader in Europe.

The all pretty much do audio and midi, have built in virtual instruments and effects. Cubase was the company that developed the VST standard that AU came out of, but for the record, Propellerheads was the creator of the first VI: Rebirth.

I imagine in time that they will all become more or less the same app (as they seem to be heading that way today), and the look and feel with be the thing that will appeal to the end user.

My bottom line: when I started out 27 years ago, it was 24 track tape, big consoles, and a few effects (reverb by spring, or a real room), some digital effects were on the scene, but what that evolved into is so much more than I ever imagined at the time. And I have to admit being very happy to have watched it unfold... I (as do the old timers around here) have a unique understanding of recording, and often we have a strong appreciation for the tools we have today. To me it's like a scifi show episode, but I actually live it every day.

Sadly, the "art" or recording, and writing, in my opinion, is suffering. Most new "engineers" don't have a clue how a compressor actually works, or the theory of eq, ways to actually mic up something... I have done sessions at Capitol here in LA with a real orchestra, a great engineer, and a producer who has been doing it since I was a baby... one or 2 takes, and you're done, and it sounds like heaven. That session was magic, as was the one with the band from Chile who couldn't speak english, or the one watching one of my heros writing a hit song in a room with a band... I am saddened that this part of what we do is being lost to technology and the way we, as artists, have to ( or choose to) use our tools because of the economic situation today...

Anyways, I guess the point is, Protools was the first big DAW, and they not only named it well "Pro Tools" but were able to deliver a system that was close enough to the familiar was guys recorded, and was faster, and allowed them to do things that could be done with tape, but much much faster.

So, I hope you liked my little history lesson. I hope it inspires one or 2 of you to check out some of the books out there by a few of the guys who have been doing this kind of thing from the beginning (Recording the Beatles is a mother load of information http://www.recordingthebeatles.com/ ) and if you can get into a big studio and be a fly on the wall, please do. It might be one of the most inspiring moments of your life, and it also might be one of the last times that you will be able to if things continue to head the way they are going...
 
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Heh. I once recorded on a Studer. That's how old I am. At home I was using a Tascam 4-track which, at the time, cost me three grand. Quite a purchase back then.

I moved on to midi-based recording with a Yamaha Q--something. I can't remember what it was. I've still got it in the garage somewhere. Another three grand. Six months or so later Yamaha came out with a better sequencer with a smaller footprint that only cost a few hundred bucks. Sigh.

But for some reason I never got into Pro Tools. I remember when it was coming up, but it just didn't interest me all that much. Maybe I was too old school.

Thanks for the history lesson.
 
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By the way, thanks for the link on Recording the Beatles. It looks like a great read.

I remember a few years ago I saw a segment on some show where George Martin (I believe it was) played the separate tracks from a Beatles multitrack recording, explaining what they'd done in the studio. At least I think I saw it. Maybe I'm dreaming.

Does anyone remember that?
 
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robgb said:
By the way, thanks for the link on Recording the Beatles. It looks like a great read.

I remember a few years ago I saw a segment on some show where George Martin (I believe it was) played the separate tracks from a Beatles multitrack recording, explaining what they'd done in the studio. At least I think I saw it. Maybe I'm dreaming.

Does anyone remember that?
Click to expand...

If you look on you tube you can find some of the Beatles music in a track my track from...

secret you tube trick:

Got to ut page you want to "get" press "command option a" that will bring up the activity monitor.

look toward the bottom of the list of pages and look for the largest size file. That will be the FLV or MP4 file. copy the link and paste into your downloads list.

Open the file in QT 7, and save as audio, drop into logic, and do your own sergeant pepper mix with the same 4 tracks they used...

Ain't technology grand ;-))


As for old stuff: Korg SQD1. a 2 track quick disc midi sequencer... you record and edit on a track (with a 3 digi LCD with the note name) and bounce to the second track, that stores your 16 midi channels. I actually made dance records with that thing... including a top 10 1986 Hi NRG dance single in the Canadian dance charts... Well, that and a Fostex 16track 1/2 deck, and a Soundtrac PC Midi board and a Mirage, Emax, and a few old synths (MKS-50 and 80). And I thought that was so freaking cool at the time
 
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All programs are so good these days that if you can't make good music in any of them you may just as well call it a day. They have slightly different strengths though so you may want to point out exactly what your needs are.
If you plan to invest in hi-end plugins like Sonnox, Serato, Vocalign etc you may want to check out the price difference between the platforms. There are 2 (and a half, counting TC Powercore) and you will find that the AU/VST versions is like half the price of the TDM. This is for the same plugin, not a better version.
One thing you should be aware of is that PT has always been ahead on audio editing but since Logic 8 and especially 9 this is highly debatable. The take folders and quick swipe functions has won more PT users over than all other features over years together I think. On the other hand I have never met anybody who went from Logic to PT (well not recently) unless they absolutely had to. Until Logic 9 it was a pretty big deal to take a session in Logic to PT. With the "bounce all tracks in place" function this is a 5 minutes thing and is no longer an issue. The whole being able to stay in one program all the way is also overrated since that only works if the two studios have the same plugins (which again leads me back to just how expensive those plugins are). This of course also goes for taking a song from one Logic setup to another unless you stay with the native plugins.
 
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It also i very important to realize that the Pro Tools that "is" the standard, is not equal with the LE and MP versions that Avid are using to lure users into the PT ecosystem.
They are severely limited compared to Logic and other DAW's...
 
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"Recording the Beatles" is a great read. It was written by two guys who are fanatics about both The Beatles and 1960s-era recording technology. Unlike many publications in the popular music area, it is also very well written. Add to that the gorgeous production values (box, inserts, reproduction of the "console" they used at Abby Road for most of their sessions, and more) and it more than justifies the $100 price tag.

I know this isn't Logic-related, but when George mentioned the book I just had to chime in.

Jim
 
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I jumped into Logic at version 5.51 for PC because of its score facility. I upgraded to Logic 8/9 because of the vastly improved user interface. I bought Protools 8 because of its score facility. And because, as a guitarist, I couldn't resist the Eleven Rack with its integrated, standalone, built-in DSP stompbox type effects and amp modeling.

I think the Eleven Rack is a good deal for a guitarist: it lets you save all your guitar plugins along with your audio track. You can save your settings from the interface to the session, or from the session to the interface. The Eleven makes a great standalone preamp with two balanced outs along with two amp (unbalanced line) outs, with configurable rig levels and balancing between the outputs.

Avid also provides an AU driver, so the Eleven Rack makes an acceptable interface to use with Logic. It has a guitar instrument in, microphone in (very basic, but adequate for condenser or dynamic mics), two line ins, and two AES/EBU or SPDIF digital in/outs. It allows re-amping through two more inputs, as well as simultaneous recording of both dry and wet signals. You connect it with USB if running LE, or by AES/EBU if using HD. You can also connect other AES/EBU or SPDIF digital equipment to it.

I use Logic primarily for music creation, but think the Eleven is a good value because it works with either Logic or Protools, and is a great standalone guitar pre. When used with Protools, you have a window dedicated to configuring all the effects and amp model combinations that can be uploaded to the unit.

I also have another Logic setup with MOTU interfaces. That has 64 ins and 66 outs, mostly ADAT.
 
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It's been very helpful reading these posts because I'm on the verge of deciding between Pro Tools and Logic 9. Any suggestions for good firewire interface? RME looks like only one to take advantage of Firewire 800. I need about 8 inputs and MIDI. Using a MacBook Pro i7. Am a simple minded guitar player, not looking for needless technology noodling between me and creative process...
 
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I've been looking around for a new interface myself. The two that have been recommended so far are the Apogee Duet (great sound, only 2x2, not very feature-rich), and the MOTU Ultralite mk3 (good sound, 10x14 and lots of features). Both are Firewire 400, the MOTU also does USB2.

FireFace 800 is expensive with lots of features, the Fireface 400 has slightly better mic pres and D/A but slightly worse A/D.

The RME Babyface looks pretty cool, I haven't found too much information about it yet, but it might be the best of both worlds (great converters, lots of features/connectivity). It's USB2 only. 🙁 But they say lower latency than the FireFace units. 🙂
Sound-wise the word is that it is probably similar to the FireFace 400/800, which would make it better than the Ultralite but worse than the Duet. Although all of them are probably quite good.
 
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