Logic Pro 9 Logic with 02R and use of virtual instruments


I am planning a new studio and since my previous studio was set up with a Yamaha 02r v2.0 console and (MAC) G4 running Logic and utilizing RME Hammerfall cards and ADAT as my connection source, I would like my new set up to be similar. (yes I am old school, thats why I like using a real console i.e. 02r). I am considering a MAC G5 either 8 or 12 core processor running Logic Pro 9, Yamaha 02r96 VCM, connecting the two with RME PCIe Raydat cards and a word clock card which would as I understand it, easily give me streaming 32 tracks in and out at 44.1 16bit. Question One: Will my planned MAC, RME, Yamaha, set up work? Question Two: I would also like to use many of the virtual instruments I have sitting around in boxes, such as Fxpansions BFD 2.0 (with many gig worth of samples for this piece) and Spectrasonics Trilogy, etc. How can these virtual instruments be configured and used in Logic Pro 9? The manufacturers state that they are Audio Units compatible and can be used as stand alone instrument or as a plug-in. This is where I get confused!! Can BFD2 for example, be used as an Audio Instrument track in Logic or is it used as a plug in. And, if used as a plug in, how can I record the instrument as I actually play it (with MIDI controller) so that it becomes one of the 32 tracks I will stream to my 02r? I am really confused. I realize that to most of you these are remedial questions, but it has been several years since I had a studio up and running using Logic, the 02r etc. Please respond as I am at a loss and clearly don't want to waste a lot of money on a system that won't function properly!!!Any and all help would be much appreciated!!
I was about to answer differently, but after thinking about it, I have to give you the answer you probably don't want.

I would ditch the O2R. Really. It's a waste and complicated as Logic does all the mixing. If you want physical faders then get a controller to do work Logic's faders, but keep your mixes in the box.

Years ago I was in the same position, but just before native plugins got seriously useful so at the time it made sense to buy a Soundtracs digital desk. Six months slater I was mixing in Logic and had a 12K (obsolete) desk I was using to send a stereo mix from the G4 to DAT tape, when all my clients were starting to ask for wav files. Doh!
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To be honest I dont entirely agree with what Pete's saying. Although I do agree it doesnt make any real sense any more to have such a large external desk (unless you are planning to record lots of mic inputs/line inputs - in which case the preamps in the Yamaha make it worthwhile.

I do think however that unless youre planning to do this theres little point in outlaying such a large amount of money into a desk which (I promise you) will have very little use. (What happened to the old one?!)

I too had/have a G4 system linking with a Yamaha O1V mixer - and one of the chief reasons for me deciding to do this at the time (2002!) was to help control/increase headroom. This is no longer the same consideration that it used to be and you genuinely can mix everything in the box now.

Im now currently using Propellerheads Record+Reason software (kinda by accident pending upgrading my Mac setup) but the headroom and mixer quality is soooo amazingly brilliant you really have no need to step outside the box. Logic will be similar in this regard.

Also what Pete is saying re his own experience of using an eexternal mixer is true - I used to do all my mixes by coming out of the Mac/MOTU setup into 4 stereo channels on my Yamaha desk and then out of the desk back into the Mac/MOTU via SPDIF in order to master.

(This process isnt actually that difficult but it does take longer than doing an 'offline' mixdown - meaning much faster internal mixdown inside Logic itself and its not something I would feel the need to do any more)

PS I sympathsise with the 'I havent used this setup for ages' thing too. Its very easy to not understand this unless youve been in a similar position yourself - when we dont use a piece of equipment/software for a couple of years we DO forget how it all works/fits together and even (in my case) what the terminologies are! lol

I also used to use the Trilogy (great sounding thing!) - Not sure about the BFD thing - its a drum plugin isnt it? As long as you have a version which works within the new chip structure of the new Macs then all you do is drop them into the right folder and bob's-yer-uncle they come up as options on the instruments plugin lists - easy like peasy!

Personally, my advice would be to get the new Mac and Logic first and sit with them and get a feel for how theyre now working and how you can now work around and with them. THEN Id think about what Audio Interface to go for! (radical I know but honestly - the landscape has changed sooo much in terms of what hardware is currently needed that its worth doing what Ive suggested by way of research before committing to something which may be redundant and cost an arm and a leg!)

PPS Mac has now brought out a new connection port called Thunderbolt which is superfast but currently has NOTHING commercially available for it (least it didnt when I looked a few weeks back!) - my other key advice is to wait and see what transpires with that re Audio Interfaces before committing to anything - as that will (literally) blow your socks off speedwise when it is fully available on the market.

So to sum up:
1) buy new Mac and Logic upgrade
2) put in old plug-ins and have a time of general frivolity and loveliness IN THE BOX while getting to grips with all the new toys and (probably) making the best sounding records/music/sound youve ever done
3) do some ongoing research re new Audio Interfaces and preferably wait til the new generation of Thunderbolt stuff arrives (should be within the next few months I would imagine)
4) while this is happening busk it/wing it/use old mixers as a stopgap if you need to record a choir/rock band/army of old outboard synth modules which (I promise you) are unlikely to see much sunlight once you get immersed in the wonder of the in-the-box possibilities! lol
5) sit back and wonder how you are going to sell/give away/make any money on the old gear (like myself!) which is still amazingly good soundwise but is nowdays (mostly) in direct competition with the sound of the in-the-box stuff which is (mostly) sonically just as good if not better


Feel free to pvt me if you need any further insight
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PPPS re the 44.1Khz at 16 bit thing - it really is preferable to be running at 24bit - gives all the stuff extra room to breathe and a kind of extra indefinable 'oomph' factor - also makes a huge difference in terms of taking things to master at 24 bit.

I would always suggest that you invest the best budget you can in terms of what you buy computerwise - this effectivly future-proofs it for as long as possible - so go for the maximumum amount of cores available - the new i7 chip features hyperthreading - which effectively means that each 'real' core acts as a virtual dual-core - thereby potentially doubling your processing power. Also get a decently large amount of RAM and make sure that all your drives are the fastest possible (or possibly even get an additional solid state drive which works faster still)

These are far better use of your budget than investing in the desk to be honest subject to the criteria I set out in my previous answer :eek:)

Also if you have the power then consider running at a higher sampling rate like 96Khz for example - although this all depends on what level of stuff youre working on and how much power/memory/RAM you have going on. (these are also considerations later for Audio Interface/potential desk etc)

Pete's right - if you feel more comfortable with hands on knob twiddling then go for a controller desk (some of the best of these also feature built in audio interfaces) - they allow you to have a real life assignable knob/fader etc etc which then control the internal Logic mixer
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Hi Mike47, here are some other answers to your questions:

--Question One: Will my planned MAC, RME, Yamaha, set up work?

Yes, I've been running a Yamaha DM1000 (baby brother to the 02R) with Logic 9 and it rocks. It works as a control surface, surround mixer w/pretty easy routing and bussing, and the built in effects are good (not amazing but better than most app's built-in plugs).

I also installed two optional cards, the FireWire expansion and the ADAT expansion. I had an 828mk3 connected to the ADAT ports, and the 828 was used to connect a bunch of different synths and vocoders to the DM1000. The FireWire ports allows recording and playback of up to 16 channels at a time. Your RME box would work the same way, except it's better quality than the ol' 828.

--Question Two: I would also like to use many of the virtual instruments I have sitting around in boxes, such as Fxpansions BFD 2.0 (with many gig worth of samples for this piece) and Spectrasonics Trilogy, etc. How can these virtual instruments be configured and used in Logic Pro 9?

Yes you can use all the virtual instruments you mentioned. It's a simple matter of creating a new 'software instrument track' and then assigning the plug in to the channel. I've used Spectrasonic's Stylus RMX and XLN Audio's Addictive Drums, they integrate very well. So well I even made a multi-channel template for Addictive Drums where each drum has its own output! (http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=56270&sid=a0bdbe8b6759b9e90c4c1a3aaa562c82)

And there are some good reasons to go with an 02r96 instead of more plug-ins: The 02r96 (unlike some other mixers or plug-ins) can run at 96khz without any limitations. Some third-party plug-ins do not work well at 96khz, and some other mixers loose half of their tracks or plug-ins at 96khz.

Let us know how it turns out.
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