Logic Pro X Multi-channel Multi-output VIs -- Utter Confusion Here

bayswater

Logician
I've spent a couple of hours trying to set up a simple VI with 4 parts, each part receiving input on a different MIDI channel with output to a different AUX. I've tried all possible combinations of all possible permutations of all possible commands and menu selections and ended up with nothing that works.

I originally wanted to do this with EXS24 but there are no hints I can find in its interface on what to do. So I started with Falcon which should be pretty simple.

I want to bring up one instance of Falcon, and put in 4 parts, using MIDI channels 1 to 4, with outputs to 4 separate AUX or Audio channels where the outputs can be printed. I can do all this in Falcon, but can't figure out how to get Logic to do it's part in this setup.

When invoking a VI like Falcon, there are preset options on how many output channels you want. None of them are useful in this case, but choosing 16 stereo channels can probably work. Presumably I can just use 4 of these and ignore the rest. Then I have to decide whether it should be mulitimbral, which I would assume is the case, even though Falcon is already multitimbral. If you put the number 4 in both boxes, you get 16 tracks. If you put 4 in one box and 1 in the other, you'll get 4 tracks on 4 MIDI channels, but no little "+" box beside the output channel in the mixer to generate the additional output auxes. If you do it the other way around, you get 4 INST tracks, and each with an output with the "+" box for a total of 16 auxes.

So, how do you get the simple setup with 4 tracks where you can record MIDI, each sending MIDI on it's own channel to Falcon, and 4 Auxes to receive the output of the 4 parts in Falcon.

And, once I've done that, I need to know if I can do the same thing with EXS24. It doesn't seem to have anything corresponding to the parts you find in most other VIs.

I know it can be done something like Falcon or Kontakt. I've seen a video of Eli K doing this, but can't remember which of his tutorials he did it.

Not sure about EXS 24. I seem to remember someone saying you just create multiple instrument tracks with EXS24, and Logic is smart enough to just use one instance and 'figure it all out'.

If anyone can recall where Eli shows this, or can point me to an idiot's guide to VIs in Logic, that would be appreciated.


BTW, Cseye, I did go back and find your earlier answer to more or less the same question, but either things have changed, or I'm doing something wrong. When I set up as per that method, I find that you can't solo or mute the tracks independently. If you reassign the tracks to their respective aux channels, you lose the record buttons. Maybe this is just the way it is, but it doesn't make much sense to me.
 
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CSeye

Logician
Use one instance of the EXS24 per track. That's it!
No aux channels involved.

The EXS24 is designed to run ultra-efficiently in LPX as each instantiation is not a separate engine but rather integrated with one EXS24 engine, something like that.

It's possible to go into the EXS24 Editor to create multiple outputs by zone or group. You can copy samples from one instrument and paste them into a group of another instance of the ESX24, then assign that group to different output. It's possible to do this, but it's designed for a one instance per track setup. So easy and efficient. I think Eli demonstrates this in his G3 tutorial on the EXS24.

More to follow in a bit.
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Referring to the steps outlined in the other thread,

  • Instantiate a multioutput instrument. Enter 1 for Multi-timbral and 1 for Number of Tacks. This results in one instrument track in the tracks area and one instrument channel strip in the mixer.
  • Note the (+) above the solo button (S) in the mixer instrument channel. Clicking the (+) creates aux channels.
  • Select the aux channels in the mixer and while still selected, click Control-T which Creates Tracks for Selected Channel Strips. The aux channels now appear as tracks in the tracks area.
  • Populate the instrument (Falcon or Kontakt) with parts as needed.
  • The first aux track will correspond to the second part in the instrument plug-in. It is true that the aux tracks do not have Records buttons. Logical, eh? Just click the record key command (R) or (*) or whatever, and record MIDI data.
  • You can independently automate each aux and insert audio plug-ins per aux.
It would help to not think about this in the way most or all other DAW function.
 
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bayswater

Logician
Thanks again. As for EXS24, it looks like it is integrated into the sound engine of Logic, and that the plugin is just an interface. I was trying to set up an orchestral template for Concert Strings. I have the EXS24 version, not the Kontakt version.

On other VIs using this method, do you have any thoughts on the fact that you can't solo or mute each track independently (at least not in the main window)? It looks like the controls on all the tracks actually point to the first track. If you reroute each track to it's respective Aux track (again suggesting they are not actually routed that way already) you can treat each track independently, but you can't record on them any more. Oddly, you can move MDI on the first track to the Aux tracks, which makes it very difficult to understand just how signal routing works in Logic.

I suppose you could use the first arrangement to do the tracking and then move to the second to do the mixing. But the risk is it doesn't appear that you can move back from the "Aux" arrangement to the "MIDI" arrangement. Perhaps this could be done in the Environment with Channel splitters and custom routing?
 

CSeye

Logician
On other VIs using this method, do you have any thoughts on the fact that you can't solo or mute each track independently (at least not in the main window)? It looks like the controls on all the tracks actually point to the first track.
Using the procedure above, you can independently solo, mute, adjust volume, and pan the instrument track and the aux tracks.

Edit 2/23/19
I'll give you that this can be a squirrelly process in Logic.

Additional setup notes
  • A mixed stereo/mono multi-output instrument doesn't seem to work very well. Use all stereo or all mono.
  • In Falcon, skip over the main output. Assign the parts to outputs beginning with Output 2.
  • In Logic, Hide the instrument track because it causes confusion, a nuisance really.
  • In Logic, reassign the aux track MIDI channel assignments so that aux 1 is MIDI channel 1 vs 2, aux 2 is channel 2, etc. (Midi channel 1 was previously assigned to the instrument track.)
You should now be good to go.
 

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bayswater

Logician
You should now be good to go.
Yes, that worked fine. I didn't realize you could set it up as Aux channels that don't show a record button and record MIDI on them anyway. As you say, not entirely Logical. Do you think this app will ever catch on?:)

On setting up multiple outputs in EXS24 via the Edit screen, I know how to do that. But it's not really practical in this case where I'm using Concert Strings. The keymaps with a dozen articulations and a zillion samples for one patch take up acres of screen space, and I want to put in about 8 of them. So I'll try multiple instances.

1896
 

CSeye

Logician
On setting up multiple outputs in EXS24 via the Edit screen, I know how to do that. But it's not really practical in this case where I'm using Concert Strings. The keymaps with a dozen articulations and a zillion samples for one patch take up acres of screen space, and I want to put in about 8 of them. So I'll try multiple instances.
The app name should be Paradox. :thmbup:
I mentioned setting up multiple outputs in the editor as an extreme and really unnecessary option.

Just create 8 EXS24 instrument tracks as indicated. It really is that easy.
 
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