Logic Pro 9 Multi Port Midi Recording

Do you miss Sound Diver and want it back?

  • Whats sound diver?

    Votes: 3 20.0%
  • I only use software synths so no.

    Votes: 4 26.7%
  • I would buy sound diver from apple as a seperate product.

    Votes: 3 20.0%
  • I dont use my hardware synths because Sound Diver is gone. I would like it bundled with logic.

    Votes: 5 33.3%

  • Total voters
    15

Peter Ostry

Administrator
Staff member
...
... Your are the midi king, and we salute your genius! :thmbup:
Best wishes, and sincerest of thanks! Bye, Shanae and Brian:hippy:
Thank you for the flowers, I will happily share them with the other MIDI kings around. I am just a small specimen among them ;)
 

dcer10

Logician
Hi,

Im back on this post again as Im having issues with my current midi routing. I landed up not worrying about the "all channels on all ports all the time" isssue and have defaulted to using only 16 midi channels but spread across all ports which has simplified my setup quite a bit.

I have been using "Midi patchbay" by Not a hat (http://notahat.com/midi_patchbay) which is excellent, but im wondeting if I can do the same within logic in the environment now that I have simplified the setup (also im having some routing issues which arent being resolved with midi patchbay).

I have an external sequencer which I want to be able to feed to all 16 channels, and I have several controllers/keyboards/sequencers etc which I wish to be able to direct to any channel ie any device directing midi to any other device (not an unusual setup) so i'm going to play around with your macro's again and see where it gets me this time :)

Thanks again!

John
 

David51

Logician
Hi, as most of you know I am an idiot. But some of you might know whether "Apnea" would work for what dcer10 wants to do, Peter? Mark? If you explain its' working to dcer10 I might learn something I could then pass on to other idiots,if they are really idiots they will ignore my interruptions.
Cheers all.
 

David51

Logician
Hi, as most of you know I am an idiot.
Can you prove that? Otherwise I don't believe it.

Hi Peter, I can prove it-bought Cubase 5 because the dutch steinberg team told me it could import music XML scores "without much distortion" it can't, unless the score is extremely simple. I must have irritated the Tech help about that "Failed to Parse" warning when I first tried to import a score. A MIDI file contains more score graphic info than the ancient xml 1.1 in Cubase 5. I asked Michael Good, head of Recordare, and he replied that it was unbelievable that steinberg would do such an unfriendly thing since xml 2 is far more developed and would import scores correctly, none the less they refuse to provide any tech help[which might be a good thing] and un- registered my products[actually they hid them where I wouldn't find them] and on the Cubase forum one Mod who apparently wasn't informed of this pointed out a rather hard to find mini arrow that went to a drop down info box where the products seem to be registered, this must fall in the category "idiot".

But some of you might know whether "Apnea" would work for what dcer10 wants to do, Peter? Mark?
Sorry, I don't know what Apnea is. I know Apnoe but this is not good for computers. Mark knows for sure, he knows everything.
I will someday use Apnea[same spelling as the sleep disorder-hell to find with google] It says it was developed by "Chris-Lane.com" but his site didn't look as though he was still offering it. I must have been given a copy[sorry Chris] on one of the breath or wind controller forums[I just tried googling that and got nothing] You could email him at 'mail@Cris-Lane.com' or just look at the site
[www.chris-lane.com/software/Projects/Entries/2008/9/12_Apnea.html] This is not a real link, copy paste it and you will be at his page for Apnea, it is Mac only and I didn't see a price but wanted to get this message out before studying his site some more.
Good try Mark, but the spelling is the same, google is not finding the site because you get it in google by searching for Cris-Lane.com-his name is on the tiny A4 that is the users guide. I just opened the Apnea.app and here is the GUI see att."Apnea". when it was open I tried to find the version number by clicking[on Mac] on the drop down list under the menu bar Apple-About Apnea, it showed me the second att. "Apnea is now Max" I may get you there yet, see if you can get that www address online and then find out what Max is, it said v.29 so they are working on it at Berklee,where he studied.
 

Attachments

Peter Ostry

Administrator
Staff member
... About Apnea, it showed me the second att. "Apnea is now Max" I may get you there yet, see if you can get that www address online and then find out what Max is ...
David, David, you are digging in the history. Max/MSP is the best known programming environment for music. Since 10 years, 15? Doesn't matter.

Here you go:
http://cycling74.com/products/maxmspjitter/

And no, it does not generally help for multitrack recording. Only if you need something special that is worth to get programmed. Btw, with MIDI and audio it costs about the same as Logic.
 

David51

Logician
Thanks Peter for correcting my search. The original Apnea still works and is used by breath controller players sometimes to create, as you point out, a special effect on a wind MIDI controller. If we ignore history we must repeat it,NO? Nice to know that such experienced people are here to correct these things. I only started with Logic Express 7 three years ago, so I have a long way to go. Fortunately many,like you , are willing to share what you have learned, thanks again.
 

David51

Logician
Hi Peter, this subject is just what I was researching, kind of you to share so much. I was wondering how to get the IAC Bus into the Environment, I thought I had done it right but my Bus doesn't say IAC, so it must be a mixer bus? I am trying out some Beta software that still has to be run from the Terminal that needs to use Logic as the in/out source of the VSTis, in this first test there are only 4 Instruments, am I right that an IAC Bus can handle up to 16 MIDI channels?and if I put a multi Instrument object in the route I can assign different MIDI channels to the first 4 of its' input and its' out put,if I need to keep the channels separate, could they go thru a channel splitter, or are individual transformers needed for this? If everything gets recorded and I don't need that I can always go back to this message to see how you did the multi recording.

First things first-how do I get an IAC Bus from audio/MIDI setup[it is there already and online, but the apply button is grey, so I removed the BUS and added a new bus-this one says IAC Bus, but the apply button is still greyed out.] Do you know how to fix this?
 

Peter Ostry

Administrator
Staff member
I was wondering how to get the IAC Bus into the Environment, I thought I had done it right but my Bus doesn't say IAC, so it must be a mixer bus?
The IAC is a MIDI bus. You see it in the "Physical Input" in the environment. And in the "External Instrument" plugin and in any plugin that lets you work with MIDI ports.

I am trying out some Beta software that still has to be run from the Terminal that needs to use Logic as the in/out source of the VSTis, in this first test there are only 4 Instruments, am I right that an IAC Bus can handle up to 16 MIDI channels?
The IAC shows up as a MIDI port like a MIDI interface. And it can handle 16 channels as any other MIDI port. If you use it via CoreMidi I think you want to call it by name. The name is what you set in the Audio/MIDI Setup.

if I need to keep the channels separate, could they go thru a channel splitter, or are individual transformers needed for this?
Both work. If you just want to split the channels, a splitter is enough. If you want to change the channel numbers, use transformers. For normal multitracking you don't need anything in the environment, you work with "demix by channel" as usual. Environment work is only necessary if you want to do something special.

If everything gets recorded and I don't need that I can always go back to this message to see how you did the multi recording.
Don't know what you mean. If I recorded something I don't need, I delete it ;)

how do I get an IAC Bus from audio/MIDI setup[it is there already and online, but the apply button is grey
There is nothing to apply, therefore the button is grey. You can only activate the checkbox "Device is online" to make the whole thing active, you can add additional IAC buses and rename them. You cannot change the number of in- and outputs.
 

David51

Logician
Hi and Thanks Peter-I see now also how to do the quotes. Very informative answer, I can hardly think of another question. I am probably the last person this developer should have asked to try a beta version, but the software is so promising, and I cannot name it. Something I recorded and don't need are bad sounding MIDI files, I just don't know if they are so bad sounding because of my use of Logic, or just that MIDI files may not have all the nuances of the audio line out from my wind controller.The new software might make the MIDI files from an Akai EWI4000 contain the nuances of the Audio output.
 

Peter Ostry

Administrator
Staff member
MIDI files trigger software instruments. And they can only play as good as their data fit to the soundmodule, the software instrument. If your recorded MIDI does not sound good in Logic, there can be two sources: either the data are not recorded properly or the soft synth is not able to interpret them properly.

Most software is by default made for keyboards. The programs take the initial velocity and that determines the kind of sound, ADSR if implemented, filters etc. But for a "correct" sound the controllers you send from the EWI need to be interpreted by the synth, MIDI file or not. If your windcontroller sends Breath messages (CC#2) but the synth does not react to them, the synth may only interpret the initial velocity and after that you hear a steady tone without the variations that make a wind controller powerful and your playing unique. It's like playing a guitar with some mechanical device instead of fingers.

Most synths are not even able to translate the full attack range you can reach by pushing air through your controller. The attack curve of a keyboard or MIDI guitar is limited in comparison to a good wind controller because an air stream from a human lung, modified by throat, mouth and lips is very complex and usually not in the focus of the average synth programmer.

If you play a soft synth, you need to teach it the controllers you send - or send what the synth can interpret. This may be Breath, Aftertouch, Expression or Volume. Many synths do not work well for wind controllers, some can be tweaked to interpret the data. With the wrong synth it is impossible to hear your sound as you play it. And there is no difference between live playing and MIDI files.

MIDI processing is crucial for this techniques. When I play my WX5 through the Yamaha VL70-m, which is (I think) still the best hardware synth for wind controllers, it sounds ok. If I record MIDI and send it again to the VL70-m it does not sound ok. Velocity is wrong, sometimes the sound has hiccups, even Breath does often not sound exactly as it was. My solution is simple, I don't do that. I record audio from the hardware synth as if the wind controller were a normal wind instrument.

If you can tell what this new software is supposed to do, I may be able to pick out a couple of potential problems. If you are not allowed to speak about that, than it is up to you and the programmer. However, you need to match the MIDI data to the synth(s) you use, otherwise you may give the developer wrong information. This matching is not always possible. If the synth does not fit, it will never play MIDI from your controller as you expect it.
 

David51

Logician
Peter, Thanks again, you are a fountain of useful information. I think you will appreciate the new software as it is directly connected to all you have just written. The developer sent some extracts from his disertation and he was solving just those keyboard synth vs. wind synth problems. In one chart you can see the glitches and wrong velocity curves created by using an Akai EWI with the wrong synth-he then shows a second chart which is the same as the first but recorded through his sequencer, and the MIDI events that obviously fall out of usable range are removed by this app. It's a sequencer designed to record wind controllers properly. He writes a lot about the problem of the continuous control messages getting in each others way when MIDI recording/editing.And the loss of metadata when editing MIDI,like correcting overlapping notes and the data gets squished together instead of correctly being processed to do what you want it to do.
 

Peter Ostry

Administrator
Staff member
Sounds good. If he is successful he will solve the bigger part of the problem. It will still be up to the musician to choose and tweak the synth that finally plays but with corrected data the process is much easier. And I think not only for wind controllers but also for other instruments.

Very interesting. Good luck!
 

David51

Logician
Thanks Peter, I still have to get the software set up, the developer is a genius at music recording but not so thorough at writing tutorials, he does answer quickly and wants to know if the average idiot like me can set it up in Terminal[ he will switch to the customary way of offering software, but until his partner in developing this app gives his permission it won't happen]. I will be shouting about it when it is ready for all to use.
 
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