Nested tuplets in Score Editor

[joegold]

Thread title says it all.

But if you don't know what these are, it's a tuplet inside of another tuplet.

E.g. A 1/2 note triplet with each of the half notes involving its own tuplet, like 5 1/8ths in the space of 4 1/8s, etc.

Finale and Sibelius can both do this, but of course they're dedicated notation apps.

Do the Logic developers happen to read this forum?
If not, then is there a place I could send this request where they'd be more likely to see it?

 

[Markdvc]

is there a place I could send this request where they'd be more likely to see it?

Yes indeed, it's the first thing mentioned in the sticky in the Logic Wishlist sub forum:


https://logic-users-group.com/forum...-first-how-to-post-about-bugs-and-wishes.110/

kind regards


Mark

 

[joegold]

OK. Thanks.
I made then request over there as well.
But people have been requesting this, and other Score Editor improvements, for decades now with no response from Logic's developers.
Still, never hurts to try.

 

[volovicg]

I believe you can do this. To make sure I absolutely understand. Can you post an image of what you are trying to achieve?

 

[joegold]

Hmm.
I can't post a image right now.
But the image that you posted is basically what I'm talking about.
Are you saying that you did this with Logic?
If so, then please explain how you did it.

As a matter of fact, the nested tuplet you posted is quite a bit more complex than what I've been thinking about. (Or it might be simpler, I'm not sure. lol)
You've got two 1/8-note quintuplets in the space of 2 halves of a half-note triplet.
But each half of a half-note triplet (= 1.5 half-note triplets or the equivalent of 3 1/4-note triplets) is just the same as 2 beats.
So why do you even need the triplet bracket?
The same sound could be achieved simply with the 2 quintuplets and no triplet. No?

What I've been after is, for example, a 1/4-note triplet with one or more of the three 1/4-notes in the tuplet broken up into an 1/8-note duplet or an 1/8-note triplet, etc.

 

[volovicg]

ok - thanks of the clarification. You are right - I should have added a third set of tuplets to have it make sense. It doesn't matter as I don't think it was the answer to your question. However, see if measure "1" (below in the attachment) is what you are looking to do. Again - just want to make sure I am presenting a solution to the right question....
Yes both of these examples were done in Logic. It is not straightforward or necessarily intuitive but it can be done. Requires a polyphonic staff style and two sets of tuplets (one for the bracket and one for the rhythmic value of the notes)

 

[joegold]

ok - thanks of the clarification. You are right - I should have added a third set of tuplets to have it make sense. It doesn't matter as I don't think it was the answer to your question. However, see if measure "1" (below in the attachment) is what you are looking to do. Again - just want to make sure I am presenting a solution to the right question....
Yes both of these examples were done in Logic. It is not straightforward or necessarily intuitive but it can be done. Requires a polyphonic staff style and two sets of tuplets (one for the bracket and one for the rhythmic value of the notes)

OK.
I understand what you're saying about how you did your example in your 1st pic.
And I'm guessing that due to the nature of that music it would also play back as expected.
But the nature of that music doesn't require the outer triplet and it would never be written that way as far as I can tell.
I'm guessing that using your polyphonic score style trick I could probably notate most simple nested tuplets that I would need to.
I'm just not sure how many of them would actually play back the way they're supposed to sound.
And one of the reasons I want to be able to notate nested tuplets is so that I can hear how they are supposed to sound so that I can become a better reader of nested tuplets myself.

As far as your 2nd pic/example is concerned, yes I know how to do that by allowing half values in the N-Tuplet Creation Dialog Box.
That's not really what I'm trying to do although your example IS kind of like the duplet I suggested in my last post.
But nested tuplets involve at least one new bracket within an encompassing tuplet.

Thanks.
The polyphonic score style is a good trick and one that I'd forgotten about.
Still, I'd rather be able to do real nested tuplets, playback and all.
Both Finale and Sibelius can do this, both visually and with MIDI playback.
There really isn't any reason why Logic shouldn't be able to do it too.

 

[volovicg]

Tuplets Triplets Duplets

Try this and see if one of the scenarios below addresses your issue. You got me on a mission now as I thought I understood what you wanted then didn't.
Please check out the attachment.
You are right it very difficult to get the score and the music perfectly concurrently.
I would do the notation and the music separately
I believe the attachment demonstrates nested triplets and duplets - please confirm
Greg V.

 

[joegold]

Try this and see if one of the scenarios below addresses your issue. You got me on a mission now as I thought I understood what you wanted then didn't.
Please check out the attachment.
You are right it very difficult to get the score and the music perfectly concurrently.
I would do the notation and the music separately
I believe the attachment demonstrates nested triplets and duplets - please confirm
Greg V.

Yep. That's them.