Logic Pro 8 Rename program changes

#1
OK, so nobody knows everything about this app:)

I am finally getting under the hood with Kontakt 3, at client's request.

I have created a program bank and added program changes in the Event List and it all works beautifully.

However, in the Event List they are named,: Grand Piano, Bright Piano, Electric Grand, etc. I want to rename them to match what is in Kontakt but I cannot seem to do with the Text tool.

Anyone know how to do this?
 

Eli

Logician
#2
Hi Jay,

It looks like you've got some generic General MIDI names being generated there. Do you have some sort of generic multi instrument as your track object by any chance?

You say you created a "program bank" but I'm not surely exactly what you mean by this. If it involves use of a default multi instrument at some stage of your signal flow - there's your General MIDI culprit. You can easily go in there and initialize the names and/or rename them if you want to.
 
#3
Hi Eli, thanks for responding. No, it is just a software instrument channel strip with K 3.5 instantiated, no MIDI instrument. But when I create the program changes in the Event List, it defaults to general MIDI names and I cannot seem to rename them.
 
#4
Hi jay,
You can create individual program & instrument change messages in the event list, but to my knowledge cannot create a set of program banks i.e. multi instrument. From my understanding that is done in the environment.

Therefore any program bank (normally as a multi instrument) that is created in the environment has the ability to have it's instrument names... re-named.

To do this for Kontakt though, I think you need the MSB & LSB messages for Kontakt and I've never done this yet for anyone..... I've had many requests for this kind of setup for different people's keyboards/synths, which is really a piece of cake if you know the MSB's & LSB's (albeit very time consuming!).

You set up the banks and instrument names in the multi instrument, then go into (from memory) >Options> Define Custom Bank Messages. (this has to be done in the environment of course). If you can't find it under options in L8 check your manual for "defining custom bank message changes" as it's been a while since I last used it.

One note: Just to throw a spanner in the works , I found out the hard way that there are 127 instrument possibilities for each bank and guess what..... some manufacturers use from 1 - 128 and some use from 0 - 127. So you may have to move your messages one place either way to get the selected instrument to match the proper voice. i.e. in the arrange you may have selected say a vibrophone and it plays harpsi or something so you see it can be veeeery time consuming to fix a minor error.

Funny, I use Kontakt but have never thought about doing this!

I'm no apple certified trainer or master kontakt'er but I have around 18 odd years with Logic and this is one very neglected item that I have not seen many people understand...... It took me many goes at it to figure the correlations and whenever i go back to it, it takes a few moments thought to bring it back!

Hope this is what you're looking for, best regards

Chris.
Silver Pine Digital
New Zealand.
 
#5
Hi jay,
You can create individual program & instrument change messages in the event list, but to my knowledge cannot create a set of program banks i.e. multi instrument. From my understanding that is done in the environment.

Therefore any program bank (normally as a multi instrument) that is created in the environment has the ability to have it's instrument names... re-named.

To do this for Kontakt though, I think you need the MSB & LSB messages for Kontakt and I've never done this yet for anyone..... I've had many requests for this kind of setup for different people's keyboards/synths, which is really a piece of cake if you know the MSB's & LSB's (albeit very time consuming!).

You set up the banks and instrument names in the multi instrument, then go into (from memory) >Options> Define Custom Bank Messages. (this has to be done in the environment of course). If you can't find it under options in L8 check your manual for "defining custom bank message changes" as it's been a while since I last used it.

One note: Just to throw a spanner in the works , I found out the hard way that there are 127 instrument possibilities for each bank and guess what..... some manufacturers use from 1 - 128 and some use from 0 - 127. So you may have to move your messages one place either way to get the selected instrument to match the proper voice. i.e. in the arrange you may have selected say a vibrophone and it plays harpsi or something so you see it can be veeeery time consuming to fix a minor error.

Funny, I use Kontakt but have never thought about doing this!

I'm no apple certified trainer or master kontakt'er but I have around 18 odd years with Logic and this is one very neglected item that I have not seen many people understand...... It took me many goes at it to figure the correlations and whenever i go back to it, it takes a few moments thought to bring it back!

Hope this is what you're looking for, best regards

Chris.
Silver Pine Digital
New Zealand.
I guess I am not being clear here. With Kontakt 3.5 you do not want to address it with MIDI instruments period, but separate channel strips so that it spreads them throughout the cores. So there are no multi-instruments that I am using, period, just the software instrument track itself.

So somehow, it is referencing an default general MIDI bank even though no Multi Instrument or MIDI Instrument has been created to address the software instrument channel strip.

And once agzin, functionally everything is exactly as it should be.
 
#6
Hi Jay,
Sorry I wasn't meaning to be a pain... I guess I didn't read it carefully enough.

I do understand though wanting to spread the load across the cores.

My instinct is that when you are manipulating a program change in the event list for your selected channel strip that is automatically referencing the names of the gen midi banks. As far back as I can remember this has been the case....

Maybe our friendly Apple team can make it so that we can generically change the prog name in the event list for whatever plugin we're usin' in their next update!.

Best Regards

Chris.
 

Eli

Logician
#7
Hi Jay,

I don't think this is a Kontakt specific problem. I just tried creating a generic multitimbral instrument, loaded SampleMoog into it, and generated some program changes in the Event List. I got the same results you did. It seem like the general midi default patch names are embedded into Logic's code somehow; at least with regards to program change events in the Event List.
 

Pete Thomas

Administrator
Staff member
#8
I think the only way round this may be to use a multi in the arrange and cable it to the SI channel strip, then go in there and change the default GM names. It is a pain, I hope I'm wrong and there is an easier way!
 
#10
(sigh) Another one of those odd choices the developers made.

Fortunately it is not a workflow killer, just annoying.

Thanks guys for confirming that I am not yet losing my mind.:brkwl:
 

Eli

Logician
#13
Why do you need the channel splitter at all? Couldn't you just cable multiple outputs from the multi instrument to each of the multi timbral instances of the software instrument? They are each set to respond to a unique MIDI channel already. Wouldn't that take care of the "channelizing" of the multi instrument's output?
 
#14
I am not going to avoid people to start using those kind of methods just to avoid the annoyance of the wrong patch name showing up in the Event List, which unlike me, most of them do not use much anyway.

But it is IMHO silly that we cannot simply rename it with the Text Tool.
 

Pete Thomas

Administrator
Staff member
#15
Why do you need the channel splitter at all? Couldn't you just cable multiple outputs from the multi instrument to each of the multi timbral instances of the software instrument?
Yes. I do this frequently. Not sure why I said previously to use several multis.

I am not going to avoid people to start using those kind of methods just to avoid the annoyance of the wrong patch name showing up in the Event List, which unlike me, most of them do not use much anyway.

But it is IMHO silly that we cannot simply rename it with the Text Tool.
It would be very useful if, for instance, you were using program changes to switch articulations back and forward. I'd like to have all the names of the articulations already set up rather than having to type them in.
 
#16
Why do you need the channel splitter at all? Couldn't you just cable multiple outputs from the multi instrument to each of the multi timbral instances of the software instrument?
It is not same Mr.Eli.
In the Environment each output cable from objects like Multi, Standard, Monitor, Ornament etc... duplicates the events.
On the other side when have direct cabling to Logic channel strip, the channelization does not work, so it will not filter the non matching channels and you will BOOM the instrument with re-triggering of the duplicated channel events.
Make an experiment with Channel Spliter as I show in the scheme above and after that try your method to see what I'm talking about...

The channel strip channelize may work if you try to cable the Multi ( one cable only ) to the Sequencer Input in Click and ports. This way you emulate live play mode which may require instrument track arm/thru selection etc... That's why I still prefer a Channel Splitter after the Multi.
 
#17
Why do you need the channel splitter at all? Couldn't you just cable multiple outputs from the multi instrument to each of the multi timbral instances of the software instrument?
Yes. I do this frequently. Not sure why I said previously to use several multis.

I am not going to avoid people to start using those kind of methods just to avoid the annoyance of the wrong patch name showing up in the Event List, which unlike me, most of them do not use much anyway.

But it is IMHO silly that we cannot simply rename it with the Text Tool.
It would be very useful if, for instance, you were using program changes to switch articulations back and forward. I'd like to have all the names of the articulations already set up rather than having to type them in.
Agreed.
 
#18
I'll take your word for it ( no time to set it up and test it at the moment). Strange that the channelization on the individual channel strip wouldn't function with regard to this type of situation. But I believe you that it doesn't :)

Thankfully, the channel splitter workaround is a simpe solid solution.
 
#19
Strange that the channelization on the individual channel strip wouldn't function with regard to this type of situation.
It had never functioned with direct cabling since it is a Sequencer job. You set the channel strip to ch.1, 2, 3. etc... to tell the Sequencer what is the channelization say for "Auto demix by midi channel if multitrack recording" which behaves as Live play mode switcher now in L8. But the channel strip itself can not filter non matching channels yet.
 
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