Logic Pro round robin revisited

J

jmlrtn

Logician
This is my first post so thanks for the opportunity to ask for help to solve my Logic problem.

Simply put:

I have created an EXS24 instrument.

I have grouped five samples: S1,S2,S3,S4,S5 into five Groups : G1,G2,G3,G4,G5 and set Group settings (Select Group By, etc.) such that I can repeatedly hit C4 on my MIDI controller and cycle through the 5 samples (from bottom to top) assigned to that key.

So far, so good.

But what I cannot do with this setup is return to S1, my base sample, at any time. Say, I have proceeded through S1 > S2 > S3. I would like the option to return to trigger S1 immediately, i.e. S1 > S2 > S3 > S1 rather than be forced to cycle through the rest of the stack - > S4 > S5 before I am allowed to trigger S1 again. The only way that I have discovered to do this is to open the EXS instrument editor then mouse-drag a sample from C4 to another key and back again which re-sets to the original state where I can trigger S1 again. This solution is not practical when performing on a MIDI controller away from the computer (unless there exists a MIDI command that could enable the same transaction to occur while not in the editor). There has got to be an easier way than this …

Thanks for any advice you can offer.
 
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Can you duplicate the layout using only S1, set that up as a second articulation, and then assign key-switching to get back and forth between the two articulations?
 
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bayswater said:
Can you duplicate the layout using only S1, set that up as a second articulation, and then assign key-switching to get back and forth between the two articulations?
Click to expand...

Yes, I can (and have) tried multiple "stacks of two" mapped to a number of keyboard keys (if this is what you meant). With just two stacked I can of course quickly begin the cycle again once the second sample has played out. But my setup is not being used to articulate drums, cello, or any other instrument. There are no piano roll MIDI notes triggering samples through time - it is not necessary to hit PLAY to get the result I want, I only need to repetitively hit a single key to cycle through the number of samples assigned to it, It's just that I'd like to be able to break away at any time to return to the beginning sample whenever I choose. Triggering the stack of ten or more samples I have assigned to a given note takes several minutes (my samples are long). I don't want to have to cycle through all of them and run through all of that time just to return to the beginning sample. Even more, I'd like to be able cut out of a sample in the middle of play (rather than wait for its one-shot to play out) just to get to the bottom even quicker - if that is possible.

Thank you for responding.
 
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I don't know if we're talking about the same thing. I'm not talking about basic mapping with keyboard and velocity splits or layering. I mean articulations. Think of it as two entirely separate instruments with keyswitching, as you might set up for a string instruments with legato and pizzicato articulations.

As for having the sound change immediately rather than on the next MIDI on note, it's unclear how that could happen. An alternative sample would have to start playing at an undetermined point in its envelop.
 
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Ha ha. Yeah, we're probably not talking about the same thing, but that's ok.
I am aware of applying EXS24 instrument articulation to open-closed hi-hats, bow-up/bow-down for string instruments etc. but this common application of the editor requires a MIDI note passage running through time, as I understand it. In my case, I am only assigning audio samples to one note in the EXS24 editor keyboard. I will then be continually tapping that same note on my MIDI controller keyboard just to trigger the samples - no MIDI region necessary. The sample assignment function of the EXS24 editor is helpful to me in that I can set up and trigger a long sequence of samples simply by tapping one note repetitively. All I want now is to be able to return to the beginning sample of the series, at any time after I have begun tapping, with a command initiated from outside the editor - a controller keyboard MIDI "reset-to-beginning of Group" command would be ideal. Currently it seems I am restricted to having to play through the entire series before I can return to the initial sample and that will not serve my purposes. Perhaps this is a strange application of the editor but I see a lot of potential in it if I can overcome this impediment.

Thanks for considering.
 
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So you would have to tap another key to switch to the other set of samples to get back to the S1 sample. And it would only change when you trigger the next note. But otherwise, why wouldn't keyswitching solve this problem?
 
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Now I'm not sure I know what you mean by keyswitching. Do you have a reference that explains its application?
I'll start researching the subject now.
 
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If you google keyswitching, you'll find a reference to just about all sample players (Kontakt, Aria, etc) with some explanation on how to apply a keyswitch. You assign a key, usually at the low end of the keyboard that doesn't play a note, it instructs the player to change the set of samples it is playing. For some reason, the term is not used in reference to EXS24, although it works pretty much the same way. Here is a simple explanation from Apple Communities:

"First open the EXS editor, and the assign any layers you want controlled by a key switch to a group.

Then open the groups tab (top left corner of the editor), and look for the "Select By Group" column. Here you'll assign the key switch by first defining "type" as "note", and "number" will be the actual MIDI note value (C1, C#1, etc..) Just remember to assign this to a note value outside of the instruments register."

So if you set up two groups or articulations, one with the round robin, and one without, both playing their samples when you press C4, then you could use C1 to activate the first articulation, and D1 to activate the second.
 
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Thanks for the reference CSeye. I have tried to understand what I can from it and will describe the problem I am still running into in my following post ...
 
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bayswatter and CSeye


This is what I have tried so far (refer to figures):

view
view


Regarding the 2-Group stack on F1: I have assigned MIDI notes C1 and D1 to enable triggering of the bottom Group and top Group respectively (each Group containing a single sample). Tapping C1 sets up C2 to trigger the bottom sample. Tapping D1 sets up C2 to trigger the top sample. Yes, this setup is a way to quickly return to the bottom group of a stack immediately after triggering a Group above it - but, in this case, the same effect can be accomplished with a round robin setup as well.

Now when the key-stack contains more than two Groups (like the 8-Group stack on C2) I still can’t figure out how to set up key-switching assignments to accomplish the same “immediate restart” maneuver. I can assign C1 to enable triggering of the the first (bottom) Group of the 8-Group stack on C2 but then subsequent C1 key-tapping will not trigger the remaining Groups above it - in other words, I lose the round robin effect I need. It is not acceptable to assign a different MIDI note to enable specific triggering of each and every Group in a stack because that would eat up keyboard real estate. The point is I need to reserve keys for Group stacks and keep MIDI note key-switching assignments to a minimum.

I hope the figures I have provided will help you further clarify the suggestions you have already given me. I’ve included 8-Group stack duplicates in this setup because I gathered from your comments that “duplication” of Groups is somehow involved in the solution.

TIA
 
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