Sampletank issues

[alienimplant]

I love IK (adore their amps), but I've had nothing but problems with Sample Tank 2.5. IK has shown no signs of addressing them in about a year now. It's great as a sample player, but building your own kits (the reason I bought it) has given me nothing but headaches due to technical glitches, which they eventually blamed on my samples, but every other software I have has no problem with them (they were created from several leading sample editors just to rule out problems related to the export from certain editors). Shame too, because the pitch shift technology in Sample Tank is outstanding. It has fantastic potential but is flawed to the point that I can't use it.

My wish list:
1) Fix crashing problem (in plugin and stand-alone modes) when building and loading custom programs. Basically, you'd build the kit, save it, try to load it and Sample Tank (in either mode) crashes. From what I can tell, it is saving a defective program and crashes when it tries to open the defective program or sub program. You just don't know it's defective until you try to load it.
2) Allow modifications to main program files instead of forcing me to save them as sub program alternatives. This totally sucks. Basically, I build a kit (never mind the crash later), then turn on the glide pitch shift option, then canNOT save over the same file. I am forced to save it as a subset of the main program, which ultimately slows down the process of finding sounds later on, because the one you want is now a sub-item of the parent which you don't care about. This is a serious drawback to the software in addition to the stability issue.

Please don't delete or move this reply. People should be allowed to read it. All my complaints to IK about this have simply been blown off by support so they can close their precious tickets. IK does not seem concerned about addressing these issues. Considering that fact, it troubles me that they should have a soapbox on which to pitch this software in this forum, while there is still serious work to be done with the product.

 

[dfloik]

Good morning alienimplant,

1st of all I want to introduce myself. I am Derrick Floyd. The National Product Specialist for IK Multimedia and I want to thank you for voicing your comments and concerns. Even if problems arise, I dont see them as a negative, because each thing that we discover along the way just makes our products better and better the next time. So thanks again for your post.

With that said, lets get down to business with your complaints...

Our Support

It appears that you have spoken to tech support often and that have not resolved your issue. Do you remember who you spoke to? I would like to make sure that not "Drop the ball" on any concern made by our customers so please feel free to email me directly with that information. Your gripe was that IK support has "blown you off" and I want to make sure that if this is the case then it not happen anymore. Now with that being said, it doesn't mean that we can solve EVERY problem, but I will at least admit if the there is a certain issue with our product and promise you that we will make every attempt to correct it.

SampleTank as a TRUE sampler

I have been a SampleTank LOVER since its conception and I have to tell you that from the very beginning it was never touted as a "true sampler". It was always built to act as a "swiss army knife" type of rompler. More in the tradition of a virtual Roland JV 5080 than a sampler built to import many types of formats and build your own custom sound sets.

Now while it does an offer an import function, it is truly basic in nature and only adds a small part of functionality for the convenience of using "1-shot" samples and other loop-based data. Now if you are truly looking to build custom drum kits, there are much better products like Battery and BFD2 that will make this process MUCH easier.

But at the same time, you mentioned the STRETCH (SampleTank Time Resynthesis TEchonology) engine as having GREAT potential and I agree. When applying this engine to natural / organic sounds like a voice, a woodwind instrument, and even string instruments like Violins, Violas and such, it brings to life a realism when playing that I must say so myself is unmatched by a lot of todays samplers.

As I read your letter though, I am sure that you are aware of this because you seem to be a power user and I can only hope that you have enjoyed SampleTank for all the things that it IS and not the things that it IS NOT!
I also would like to offer that you take a look at a few of these great videos that we are now offering for FREE to our valued SampleTank customers until the end of June. Click this link and enjoy: http://www.groove3.com/str/sampletank-in-action.html

Saving OVER the MAIN sound

This particular issue is NOT a bug but a safe guard for our customers. When we originally designed our file structure we thought that most people who would be creating NEW sounds by editing their own would always want to have a place to "go back to start" if you will. Most people still LOVE the original or PARENT sound but just want to make a small tweek so we allow them to edit that sound and save it as a CHILD sound or edited version of that same sound. Also we took this idea from the Keyboard companies that never allowed you to SAVE over the ROM sounds that were in your Keyboard or workstation. So I have to tell you that I dont think issue will be solved to your liking. For that we apologize.

Closing Thoughts

Overall, SampleTank has grown over the years, adding more effects on board (up to 33 now with CSReverb which is a slice of our incredible Classic Studio Reverb product) putting together a brand new Part, Send and Master effects bus routing system, and even expanding on the already incredible STRETCH engine by giving you NOTE and PHRASE mode... So I think if I had to look at what SampleTank was designed to do, I think it fits the bill and more and I am sure that once you remove the expectations of ST2 reacting like a True Sampler, I think you'll be happy with your purchase once again.

Please feel free to contact me anytime,

Derrick Floyd
National Product Specialist / Training Manager
IK Multimedia
1153 Sawgrass Corp Pkwy
Sunrise, Fl 33323
O: 954 846 9101
C: 954 882 9206
F: 954 846 9077
Email: derrick.floyd@ikmultimedia.com

 

[alienimplant]

Hmm, very refreshing post. But let me respond very simply:

I bought SampleTank for one reason only: to build my own kits from single-note sample bites. So if I have a single note guitar tone, all I want to do is load the sample, apply STRETCH, save it as a 'single' patch, and then be able to load it quickly when I need it. But as you acknowledged, I'm forced to go through my original program that I will never use again in a million billion years. So while it may seem appropriate for the stock library to protect the original patches, I don't want or need that for my own. I want to save OVER the sounds that I create myself. I need that option.

I haven't used SampleTank for the last year or so, since the date my ticket was closed and I didn't get the help I needed, and again I bought it only so I could build my own kits. I'll make an effort to try to build my kit again and keep you apprised of the support process. I know it's not a "true" sampler, but I paid a nice chunk of change for a capability that it is supposed to do but doesn't. I don't have much need for ROMplers. I need SampleTank simply to build my own kits with STRETCH enabled.

I really wish I had the ability to save OVER user created "parent" patches. Frankly, I'd like to save over yours too, but I won't argue that point as I respect your logic on the stock sounds.

 

[alienimplant]

Made a few edits for clarification. Please reread before you respond. Thanks

 

[Jay Asher]

This is a typical discussion I encounter.

User: I bought Product A because I want to do do such-and-such.

Product Rep: Well, it really wasn't designed to do such-and such, it was designed to do so-and so.

User: But I want it to do do such-and-such.

Th key to success with any software IMHO is to learn how it works best and adapt our workflow rather than trying to bend it to our will. In theory at least, we are smarter than the software

 

[alienimplant]

Hi Jay,

Congratulations on your pithy insult of my intelligence and for missing the point completely. SampleTank has a feature to let you build your own kits, and it is broken. It crashes (on two different computers and sometimes the entire computer) when you compile the kit and try to load it.

Thanks for your tip on dealing with that and making it my fault for being inflexible.

 

[alienimplant]

Jay,

Looking at your profile and accomplishments (which are impressive), I suspect you didn't mean to be provoking. I'm sorry for the harsh response, but I did feel your reply was blithe to say the least. I think it's fair to expect a product to work as advertised. If it doesn't, the vendor should make it so. This to me is a valuable thread and asking me to ignore such a serious problem and acquiesce is unjust.

 

[Eli]

Hi alienimplant,

FWIW, I agree the patch handling could stand some improvement. But I'm a bit confused by your posts. You wrote:

"build my own kits from single-note sample bites. So if I have a single note guitar tone, all I want to do is load the sample, apply STRETCH, save it as a 'single' patch,"


You talk about needing to build a "kit". And then you mention needing to be able to load in a single guitar sample, apply STRETCH, and then save that as an instrument. SampleTank can and does do that beautifully.

But building a "kit" usually, at least to me, refers to building a drum kit. Which of course comprises many samples mapped out on different keys. This kind of thing is _not_ what Sampletank was designed to do. So, what exactly do you mean by "kit"?

 

[Jay Asher]

Jay,

Looking at your profile and accomplishments (which are impressive), I suspect you didn't mean to be provoking. I'm sorry for the harsh response, but I did feel your reply was blithe to say the least. I think it's fair to expect a product to work as advertised. If it doesn't, the vendor should make it so. This to me is a valuable thread and asking me to ignore such a serious problem and acquiesce is unjust.

Absolutely correct that:
1. I wasn't trying to provoke you.
2. A product should work as advertised.

Bu D-Flo seemed to be taking some issue as to whether #2 was actually the case. Not being a Sampletank user I do not know, but D-FLo is a very reliable cat and if you follow what he tells you, you will be well served.

 

[alienimplant]

Yeah, my terminology could use some refinement, but I disagree on the 'beautifully' part. When I say kit, I just mean any custom instrument. I created a set of samples from an audio loop. I named those with correct file names (support confirmed I did this properly). I loaded those samples into the new custom instrument. I saved the instrument. This was unnaturally quick and is where the error is really introduced. Then I load the instrument and my software crashes, whether in stand alone or plugin mode (in plugin mode, Logic itself crashes). Support blamed this problem on the samples, so I recreated them from another audio editor to rule out the first editor as the culprit. The same exact thing happened. Support again blamed the samples and closed the ticket. I asked them how this could be the samples' fault when they functioned just fine in every other software I have (which are legion). There was nothing wrong with the samples. To indulge IK support, I tried all of this on another computer, but had the same result.

I hope that clears things up. I want to take up the IK rep's offer to pursue this matter. I suspect it will lead to them taking a closer look at the samples and getting to the bottom of why SampleTank is the only software that cannot read them, leading it to compile an instrument that crashes the standalone or host software, rather than simply 'blowing me off'.

 

[alienimplant]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

 

[alienimplant]

Jay, just do me a favor and patronize me a little less. I am also a "very reliable cat" and I only voiced my concern in this forum because IK would not take the issue seriously when the problem came to light and the very same product was being solicited here. Personally, I'm pleased that someone at IK cared enough to respond. Perhaps now the broken feature can be repaired.

 

[Jay Asher]

Jay, just do me a favor and patronize me a little less. I am also a "very reliable cat" and I only voiced my concern in this forum because IK would not take the issue seriously when the problem came to light and the very same product was being solicited here. Personally, I'm pleased that someone at IK cared enough to respond. Perhaps now the broken feature can be repaired.

I do not know you. I know D-FLo. If you say one thing and he says another, I will take his word, until it is proven to me otherwise. Sorry if that offends you, that is not my intention, but he has credibility with me that you do not.

 

[alienimplant]

How are your observations helpful in this case? Personally, I don't think D-Flo was arguing with my claim of a dysfunction. He was proactive, very supportive and interested in the problem. You seem intent on sowing conflict where there is none. My problem is not with D-Flo. It is with you and your condescending attitude towards me and my experiences with the product.

 

[Jay Asher]

How are your observations helpful in this case? Personally, I don't think D-Flo was arguing with my claim of a dysfunction. He was proactive, very supportive and interested in the problem. You seem intent on sowing conflict where there is none. My problem is not with D-Flo. It is with you and your condescending attitude towards me and my experiences with the product.

I am sorry you are taking it that way.

D-FLo wrote, "This particular issue is NOT a bug but a safe guard for our customers. When we originally designed our file structure we thought that most people who would be creating NEW sounds by editing their own would always want to have a place to "go back to start" if you will. Most people still LOVE the original or PARENT sound but just want to make a small tweek so we allow them to edit that sound and save it as a CHILD sound or edited version of that same sound. Also we took this idea from the Keyboard companies that never allowed you to SAVE over the ROM sounds that were in your Keyboard or workstation. So I have to tell you that I dont think issue will be solved to your liking. For that we apologize"

You wrote:
"So while it may seem appropriate for the stock library to protect the original patches, I don't want or need that for my own. I want to save OVER the sounds that I create myself. I need that option."

That says to me, unless I am misunderstanding, that they designed it to work one way and you want it to work another. So I think my original comment is still pretty on target. Also, Eli describes something as working "beautifully" that you say does not. And Eli is another guy who has more credibility with me than you.

It does not make them right and you wrong but that will be my assumption until it is proven wrong. It is not personal, it is just the way it is.

 

[Markdvc]

May I suggest that any further discussion about patronizing comments, pithy insults etc. be taken off list and cleared up privately? Assuming that there are indeed some issues with Sample Tank it is worth sticking with those and not diluting the topic with personal stuff.

I am sure you will deal with that just fine per PM

regards

Mark

 

[Jay Asher]

May I suggest that any further discussion about patronizing comments, pithy insults etc. be taken off list and cleared up privately? Assuming that there are indeed some issues with Sample Tank it is worth sticking with those and not diluting the topic with personal stuff.

I am sure you will deal with that just fine per PM

regards

Mark

Sounds good to me, Mark

 

[alienimplant]

That part of the dialog is rather moot and is not the the primary issue in this thread. The problem is with the crashing caused by the malfunction of one of the intended functions of the product. I wish you would focus on the primary reason for my post and not get lost in tangent discussion, which I see as a rather harmless exchange, however much it perturbs you. You seem hell bent on proving to everyone reading this that I am something I am not-an idiot.

 

[alienimplant]

Do what you must, Mark. I realize this has gotten out of hand.

 

[Eli]

Hey alien,

As far as your crashing goes, I'm sorry you're having those problems, and I don't know what is causing them. I have imported both raw samples and SampleCell ll instruments into SampleTank. And although I wish there was more flexibility in it's features; it worked as advertised flawlessly. No crashing. In fact, SampleTank has never crashed on me either in stand alone mode - or caused any problems within Logic with either factory instruments or ones I created myself.

That's not to say that you are not having very real and serious problems. I fully believe that you are. All I can do is speak from my personal experience using it.