Logic Pro X Score displaying triplets correctly

Antiphones

Logician
I'm having problems getting Logic X to display triplets correctly in a piano part. I'm using the voice separation tool to determine the split point for the two hands. I have it set to 8,12.

As you can see from the screen shot the Ab (highlighted) is shown in the score as being on the beat when in fact it should be the end of a triplet as seen in the piano roll. No amount of using the n-tuplet tool seems to fix this.

Also, it will be much easier to read if the C and E just before this in the upper staff are also displayed as parts of triplets with rests rather than a 3/4.

Can anyone tell me how I can get logic to display triplets correctly and also sensibly?

Thanks.
 

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Doug Zangar

Logician
User rests might take of the 1/4 note triplet issue, possible defeating syncopation would as well. The location of the Ab doesn't make sense. Have you tried deleting it and recreating it to see if that fixes it?
 
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Antiphones

Logician
Thanks for your reply Doug. I have tried deleting and recreated that note and I get the same result. Actually the C which follows that is also displayed incorrectly as an 8th note, but its actually a triplet.

I've tried dragging user rests before and after those notes, nothing happens.
 
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Colin Shapiro

Logician
@Antiphones:
Judging from your grid in the Piano Roll, you have 3 divisions per beat. What is your time signature? You may have your parameters set badly for triplets to be displayed properly.

Some more info please.....
 
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Antiphones

Logician
@Antiphones:
Judging from your grid in the Piano Roll, you have 3 divisions per beat. What is your time signature? You may have your parameters set badly for triplets to be displayed properly.

Some more info please.....

Hi Colin. The time signature is 4/4 I have the divisions set to 12 because I'm working with triplets at this point in the piece. Its pretty straightforward, 4/4 with triplets. Later I start to mix 16th notes with triplets but I have a feeling this is going to be even harder for Logic's Score display to cope with.
 
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Doug Zangar

Logician
If you want to send me the file or upload here - can be just a few bars including that section - I'll take a quick look at it and see if I can fix it.
 
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Antiphones

Logician
I really appreciate that. I've attached a file with this bar and the before and afterwards. As well as the other strange problems with notes being displayed incorrectly, the first bar has a lot of 16 notes which are being interpreted as triplets because I have it set to 8,12. However if I set it to 16,24 all the triplets are treated as 16th notes. Thanks for your help.
 

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Colin Shapiro

Logician
I've had a look at your file.
I wouldn't set the bar divisions to 12 - rather keep it to 16 and then organise your triplets accordingly.

If you're not sure of the triplet placements, just drag 1/4 note triplets or 1/8 note triplets from the part box onto the score and watch for the correct places e.g.
3 1 1 1
3 1 3 161
3 2 2 81
for 1/4 note triplets

You could also try setting the Score quantise value to 8,12

I'm not sure exactly what you're aiming to get, so it's difficult to comment further.
 
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Antiphones

Logician
I've had a look at your file.
I wouldn't set the bar divisions to 12 - rather keep it to 16 and then organise your triplets accordingly.
Thanks for taking a look at this Colin.

I have it set to 8,12 not 12. Changing it to 16 removes all the triplet interpretation from the score. Trying to put that back in using the n-tuplet tool would take forever as there are a lot of triplets in this part of the piece :)

If you're not sure of the triplet placements, just drag 1/4 note triplets or 1/8 note triplets from the part box onto the score and watch for the correct places

I'm not sure exactly what you're aiming to get, so it's difficult to comment further.

This piece is already written using a mixture of methods including sections which were played in via midi. Its all quantized, so you can see what I'm aiming to display by looking at the notes in the piano roll. All I'm trying to do is get teh score to accurately display the notes which are already there. So I'm not inputting notes into the score editor at this point.

I'm surprised the score in Logic X can't display triplets properly. There also appears to be a nasty display bug as mentioned earlier where notes are actually shown in the wrong bar in the Score editor. I have done a lot of scoring in Logic 9 without these problems, I may need to return to that to get this finished. :/
 
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Colin Shapiro

Logician
I fooled around with it a bit more and it seems like the polyphonic style is messing up the display. If I move certain notes from channel 1 to 3 or vice versa, I can get the triplets to display properly:

I know that messes with what you'd like to have. Seems to be a score glitch. If I have time, I'll try some more....
 
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Antiphones

Logician
Further update:
Some more 1/8 note rests inserted:

I really appreciate your work on this Colin. Its almost right. The middle C is still not right, it should be the last note in a triplet but its displayed as an 8th note.

I will have a go with rests and see what I can do. But I have a feeling Logic X is just not up to triplets though, not if you change the split point.

The thing is you shouldn't have to do any of this. These are all simple triplets, Logic should be able to see that. I'm not sure Logic X is really up to scoring for piano unfortunately. I really do appreciate your time though.
 
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Colin Shapiro

Logician
@Antiphones:
Sorry - I missed that middle C.
Here:

(Similar to Doug's version)
I added a 1/4 rest on beat 1.

By the way, in addition to adding user rests, I also had to add n-tuplets to make the triplets display correctly.

I agree, one shouldn't have to jump through hoops like this to get a basic result. I guess nothing's simple these days....
 
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Antiphones

Logician
@Antiphones:
Sorry - I missed that middle C.
Here:

(Similar to Doug's version)
I added a 1/4 rest on beat 1.

By the way, in addition to adding user rests, I also had to add n-tuplets to make the triplets display correctly.

I agree, one shouldn't have to jump through hoops like this to get a basic result. I guess nothing's simple these days....

Thanks for this Colin. Yes this now correctly displays the midi in the arrange window. I agree Logic should be capable of displaying quantized triplets without the need for all this work. Its not like these triplets are mixed with 16th notes - that would be virtually impossible - I mean honestly it would be quicker to write it out neatly by hand. :) Even fixing these triplets for the whole piece would take me many hours by the sounds of what you had to do.

Logic X is clearly not up to proper scoring which is a shame.

Thanks again for your help though, I do appreciate it!
 
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Antiphones

Logician
You're welcome - it was a kind of a challenge....
:beer:

So you did it by a combination of dragging in rests and n-tuplets?

One thing I can't figure out yet in Logic X is how you see the position of notes and rests when you drag them. Its easy to see that in Logic 9 but in Logic X I can see no way of see the numbers. I must be missing something!

Thanks again for your help.
 
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Colin Shapiro

Logician
When I drag notes or rests into the score, I get a little box as I drag with the info (position/pitch/channel).

Checks your Preferences - Advanced tab. Show advanced tools should be checked, plus everything below.
 
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