Logic Pro 9 Score edit Note Length newbie question

[nickdbs]

Hi All

I'm happily migrating from Nuendo to Logic 9 but trying to get the hang of the different scoring options.

I am having trouble easily and quickly adjusting DISPLAY note lengths.

I would like to leave the actual note length values well alone (With their human touch ) But alter the value of the displayed note, on-score only.

Obviously the score display quantise global setting does this in general to the whole staff, but how can I DISPLAY-QUANTISE say... a single 8th note to become a 4th note on-score. without changing its actual MIDI length?

On Nuendo you could click a note value on the (Equivalent of) part menu and then alt-click on top of the note you wanted to change and force it to change to a new display-note length without changing its MIDI length.

Can't find this function on Logic - or is there a better way!

Thanks for help in anticipation.

Cheers

 

[Eli]

Hi David,

Glad I could help. This stuff can be really mystifying at times (it was to us all at one point, and certain aspects still are - at least in my case!) and sometimes explaining things differently can help turn a little switch on in your brain and help you see the roadblock from a different perspective. At least I've found that to be the case myself - getting past certain obstacles in the past.

PS: I actually do teach small children (percussion, not Logic - at a private school) and believe me; it is NOTHING like this!

 

[Colin Shapiro]

Hi David. I don't mean to answer for Eli, but I guess we all feel like small children when faced with an App like Logic. It's really, really HUGE!!

Eli and others here are always generous with their knowledge and that's the magic of LUG - you get great answers from users which you'd be unlikely to get from Apple without paying massive tech support fees.

Just keep on keeping on (as the old song goes.....)

 

[David51]

Thanks Eli and Colin, you have both been extremely helpful and winningly patient. Friends see me doing this and ask why spend your last few years battling software? Then I look at some of the pieces I want to record and am overwhelmed by the beauty of them[to my eyes/ears at least].
Colin, your healthy attitude helps tremendously, and Eli, you teaching children percussion must give you a sense of proportion only children provide. I hope I may continue to pose questions to you all as I wade through this briar patch. I want to use a Korg NanoKontrol to use with the orchestral sample libraries, since JamPack 4 is already installed i will use that. If I click hold on the topmost slot of an instrument track channel strip a list of all Instruments drops down,If I choose the individual sections of the strings they have a simplified user interface and there are 6 articulations available for each group. The korg can have it's cc sends changed to Mode switching and I am trying to figure out what assignation would provide the easiest workflow. I have many string pieces in score form already in Logic and did use track automation once to make some music out of one of them. The result was not completely satisfying and control of the type of articulation used in each bar was difficult to organize. If I press the arrows in the GarageBand instrument UI I get the six different articulations for each group-these are normally controlled by moving the Mod wheel slowly to shift through the six possibilities. The Korg has 9 groups of controllers,each group has one knob and a slider with 2 buttons. The knob and slider can transmit control change messages; the two buttons can transmit either control change or note messages. Since the Mod wheel was considered good enough by Apple for changing articulations I should think these knobs and sliders could do the same NO? It would mean putting the whole song on cycle loop and adjusting the balance and Panning as each passage comes past, if it doesn't work the first time I can then try as many times as I want to bang my head against this brick wall. if I think I have the mix right I could then bounce the tracks ,one by one[or save the song and do this with a copy. Transform isn't available in the score, right? in LE8 it didn't work there. but it does in the arrange or piano roll,how would I set up transform to make every even numbered 16th soft and short, leaving the odd numbered 16ths long and slightly louder[swing does this but the effect can be so minimal as to be inaudible.] apologies for the long query in a thank you note, children can be greedy. don't reply if this was all to ambitious to believe.

 

[David51]

score problems

Hi David. I don't mean to answer for Eli, but I guess we all feel like small children when faced with an App like Logic. It's really, really HUGE!!

Eli and others here are always generous with their knowledge and that's the magic of LUG - you get great answers from users which you'd be unlikely to get from Apple without paying massive tech support fees.

Just keep on keeping on (as the old song goes.....)

Hi all, I am still trying, and it is getting easier. Now I need some advice on how to make this one bar region look like the original, interpretation is off, quantize is at one 16th, triplet from Logic part box

 

[Eli]

Try a quantize value of 16 & 24. That may help.

 

[David51]

Try a quantize value of 16 & 24. That may help.

Thanks Eli, I did use 16 & 24, but forgot to say that. 2 days now and still not working right. When using n Tuplets a dialog box appears and Prischl's example uses 8:8/32, why the 8:8? If I use 16/24 and the 4/4 bar has 16th triplets what should be in the place of the second 8? I had been trying 6:6/16 but there wasn't enough room in the bar[said Logic to me]also the eraser tool has NO effect on the n or the brackets, I have to erase everything to try again, feature or bug?
I have RTFM's but find no good explanation of the nominator/division values when using n tuplets, would you mind telling me what you think would be the right value for this? possibly:6:4/16?
Do you know the path to have the downloaded pdf open when I click on help?I keep getting the Rotherich double Manual which on my machine is painfully slow.
Does time stretch[=flex time?] still play a part in n tuplets? In the advanced parameters I saw flex and Prischl [pp72]shows a way to compress 11 bars into a tuplet of only one half bar using "Time Stretch sequence contents? [Expand or Compress?]" it may not even exist anymore.
Thanks in advance for any ideas.

 

[Eli]

David, you pack a lot of questions into one post!

16 & 24 should work for what you want to display. Adjust the individual note lengths and positions in order to influence their behavior in the score display. The event float is great for this BTW. Flex has no bearing on midi. It is for audio only. Time stretching audio and flex editing audio are two different things. Yes, you can still time compress/expand midi regions by right corner dragging with the option key.

 

[Colin Shapiro]

Hi David,
Just glancing at your screenshot, I see that the first figure is an 1/8th note tied to the first of three 1/16th triplets. The Logic stave simply shows groups of 3 16ths, so I believe that your scanning software has not interpreted the music correctly in the first place.

The first high c for example needs to be . . 2 152 in length while the next two notes should be . . . 152

Set The score quantize to 32,24 and you'll get a tolerable result which probably requires further work.....

 

[David51]

Hi David,
Just glancing at your screenshot, I see that the first figure is an 1/8th note tied to the first of three 1/16th triplets. The Logic stave simply shows groups of 3 16ths, so I believe that your scanning software has not interpreted the music correctly in the first place.

The first high c for example needs to be . . 2 152 in length while the next two notes should be . . . 152

Set The score quantize to 32,24 and you'll get a tolerable result which probably requires further work.....

Hi Colin, thanks for helping, thanks to Eli too. The logic stave is what 2 days of work have gotten me, the other is the original print, so not a scanning problem-I can't use the scanning software because Logic doesn't allow xml, except for Final Cut Pro. So, Colin, do the values you gave work for the original?i.e. one 8th and 2 16th triplets on beats one and 2, beats 3 =4 are all 16 triplets-6 to a quarter note.
I still don't get the nominator/denominator part of the n tuplets window, in the pdf manual[pp895] they use 5 4 /8, in Prischl's book he shows an example using 8 8 /32, another manual has 6 4 /16-I know it has to do with the quantization value-it's just not explained very well in the printed material. But for this bar what do you think the n tuplets values should be? I will ask my other questions in another forum, so this won't get too long. Thanks again for taking the trouble to help.

 

[Colin Shapiro]

I don't see any need to go into n tuplets at all. Your original score shows that the figures are all basic 16th triplets. The first one is marked but not the others. This is a normal convention - mark the first group and assume the others are the same.

Check my attachment.

 

[David51]

I don't see any need to go into n tuplets at all. Your original score shows that the figures are all basic 16th triplets. The first one is marked but not the others. This is a normal convention - mark the first group and assume the others are the same.

Check my attachment.

Thanks for the reply Colin, I tried that first but logic wouldn't accept so many notes in one 4/4 bar. Since you are more experienced with this I will try again to make it work with regular 16th triplets-bu the way, I know what an 8th note and 16th triplets look like-but I assume you wanted to be clear about your message,Thanks again I will now try it your way.

 

[David51]

I don't see any need to go into n tuplets at all. Your original score shows that the figures are all basic 16th triplets. The first one is marked but not the others. This is a normal convention - mark the first group and assume the others are the same.

Check my attachment.

Thanks for the reply Colin, I tried that first but logic wouldn't accept so many notes in one 4/4 bar. Since you are more experienced with this I will try again to make it work with regular 16th triplets-bu the way, I know what an 8th note and 16th triplets look like-but I assume you wanted to be clear about your message,Thanks again I will now try it your way.

Colin, here is what happens with MOUSE input-not enough room in the bar,that's what n tuplets are for,right?

 

[David51]

Thanks for the reply Colin, I tried that first but logic wouldn't accept so many notes in one 4/4 bar. Since you are more experienced with this I will try again to make it work with regular 16th triplets-bu the way, I know what an 8th note and 16th triplets look like-but I assume you wanted to be clear about your message,Thanks again I will now try it your way.
See attachment for what happens with MOUSE input to that bar-not enough room for all the notes.

 

[Colin Shapiro]

I have created this bar for you in Logic:

The event list looks like this:

Obviously one has to add slurs and staccato dots but it was not difficult to do.

It seems that you may have just programmed the notes and timing incorrectly.

Hope this helps.......
PS: I used a B minor key signature in order to get some of the accidentals.

 

[David51]

Colin, You are the best, I had spent the last 24 hours trying to figure out how more than 20 16th's would fit in a 4/4 bar without tuplets, I tried, as you saw, but you just did it! Thanks are hardly enough. I will start now putting the note values in from your event list, I am assuming I can just go down the event list, not using tuplets or the triplet value notes available in the notes palette and it will come out looking like yours, I'll put the results in this forum so you will know you have been a tremendous help.

 

[David51]

Colin, I don't know what to say, it worked perfectly on my second try, the first time I used the regular notes, the success came when I used the "triplet" notes,Thanks again. Eli, thanks to you too for the event float-I had to look it up but it is certainly a valuable tool-thanks. A video of what you and Colin just taught me might be profitable, a simple printed document would less risky as business venture-after all, how many children like me are struggling with this stuff, even with Colin's excellent description I still didn't intuitively know to use the triplet valued notes in place of the regular, children need to be lead by the hand to find some things out, like using the triplet notes in Logic' score for that example. this is as quick as my valium will allow for a reply-Thanks again!

 

[Colin Shapiro]

Hi David,

I'm pleased it works for you at last. I actually played the phrase in live and then tweaked it a bit, but you can just as easily drag notes in from the partbox. You just have to select the right notes.

You'll find that these numbers (like 2 1 3 161) become familiar after a short time and you'll recognise them.

Note also that when you drag notes like triplets from the partbox into a score, the yellow tooltip box will show you all the relevant positions such as the ones in my screenshot.

Anyway, good luck for the rest of your score!

 

[David51]

Hi Colin, you played them in live-I really should have thought of that. The three regions on that track cannot I assume be rejoined, as they have different quantize values, does Logic use them properly if they are just lined up in the right order? I am now trying to get the MIDI meanings window set up, since I will be controlling everything in that part with a breath controller I didn't bother to set up the MIDI stuff. One of the value boxes[length] of a large dot won't close when I hit enter, if I switch panels to another MIDI tab and then jump back the field is blank, but returns to100% with enter pressed, any ideas about this or shall I put this on the Apple forum, or Logic Pro Help?

 

[David51]

Transform to change channels?

HiColin, Eli, and all others, I would like to use the transform window to change all MIDI channel1 notes to MIDI channel 3, and vice versa<all channel 3 notes to channel 1, I have RTFM's but still can't figure the options in Transform for this action. If one of you would be so kind as to enlighten me I would be forever grateful.

Is it normal to keep having to switch off or close and re-open the song to get the channel numbers assigned in the event list-after 10 channel changes the cursor no longer has effect on the ch number in the event list.Changing to a new copy [command 0] will bring up a new instance of an event list that does, for a while, allow changing the channels, then another must be brought forth.

 

[David51]

Hi, me again, now the polyphonic mode has stopped working, the region is still in "Piano1/3", although it had lost that setting overnight. Also no key commands work. I will try changing style modes to plain piano and back to piano1/3 and hopefully it will work again-it was going very well,pity the 9.02 didn't improve that on my machine, and I have way too much software that's not ready for Snow Leopard[Cubase 5.1] i did solve one annoyance, if one selects several[10] events in event list and wants to change all those channels it won't allow movement down a channel, only up.