Logic Pro 9 setting up busses for reverb?

Edgold

Logician
I've been advised that instead of using a reverb setting for each track, that it's better to set it up in a send and receive auxilliary buss for greater CPU effficency.

But how do I do this?
 

Atlas

Logician
As I understand it: each track can have an unlimited number of sends but 1-3 is normal. The amount of each send is shown by clicking within the circle next to the bus name and moving the mouse up or down.
Not sure about the unlimited amount of Sends you can actually create for the same channel strip...
The circle next to the Send slot is indeed a potentiometer to adjust the amount of the sound of that channel strip that is sent to the assigned Bus. Additionally you have the option to set the potentiometer to act before the volume fader (in which case pulling down the volume fader will not decrease the sound sent to the Send assigned Bus).

Upon choosing a new bus, a new aux track is created. The reverb can be set here and the track sends will use these reverbs. Other effects and filters may also be set here including the compressor.
By here, we are talking about the Aux channel strip.
Like the track channel strip, the Aux channel strip, has Input, Output, Inserts, Send slots. Also a volume fader, a pan pot; stereo/mono, Mute and Solo switches; etc... In other words, the Aux channel strip is pretty much the same thing than a track channel strip. The key concept here is the difference between track and channel strip. These are two different things that are independent from one another. A track is what you see in the Arrange window. Each track there is assigned to a channel strip.

Under the instrument number, the circles indicate the right (+) or left (-) stereo panning. Underneath that is the volume levels and these can be changed separately or all at once by choosing a group of instruments as long as they are all set to "post fader". Of course, these volume events can be changed by changing the CC7 controller in the MIDI list.
I think that "grouping" your channel strips would also allow pre-fader Send setting. The Group feature of the channel strips allows mainly to ease the manipulation of several channel strips with just one finger (the one on your mouse for instance). In a previous post where you point at your mixer screen capture, the Group 2 and 3 set on the channel strip Ins15 and Aux1, don't seem to be of any use.

And in the inspector, every track has as it's input bus 1 and output is stereo out.

These settings all seem correct as they all show up in the proper auxs.
??:eeek:??
Each channel strip (track ones and Aux ones) can be set a different Input and / or Output... In order to set the proper routing of the sounds it is important to have a clear idea of what you want to achieve.

But I can't record these settings so far to a single audio track. Yes, bouncing them works fine but, assuming these settings are correct, how do I set up the Audio 1 track for recording these multiple tracks into one track making sure the correct reverbs and balances are transmitted as they are in the regular bounce protocol?
What you need to achieve here, I assume, is to set the input of your Audio track channel strip to receive the result of the whole mix or each of the channel strips. In short you want the sum of these. For this, you have to Send (or set the Output) of each of your tracks and current Aux channel strips to a new Bus (i.e. Bus10) and then set your Audio track channel strip Input to that new bus (Bus10). Adjusting the View of your Mixer to show the Input and Output slots would ease the understanding of that process. However, considering that you already have 2 Audio channel strips (#1 and #22), it would be a good idea to decide in advance which will be used as the destination track channel strip. It would also be essential to disable the Sends currently used on the final Audio channel strip destination, in order to avoid feedback!
 
Upvote 0

Edgold

Logician
As I understand it: each track can have an unlimited number of sends but 1-3 is normal. The amount of each send is shown by clicking within the circle next to the bus name and moving the mouse up or down.
Not sure about the unlimited amount of Sends you can actually create for the same channel strip...
The circle next to the Send slot is indeed a potentiometer to adjust the amount of the sound of that channel strip that is sent to the assigned Bus. Additionally you have the option to set the potentiometer to act before the volume fader (in which case pulling down the volume fader will not decrease the sound sent to the Send assigned Bus).

Upon choosing a new bus, a new aux track is created. The reverb can be set here and the track sends will use these reverbs. Other effects and filters may also be set here including the compressor.
By here, we are talking about the Aux channel strip.
Like the track channel strip, the Aux channel strip, has Input, Output, Inserts, Send slots. Also a volume fader, a pan pot; stereo/mono, Mute and Solo switches; etc... In other words, the Aux channel strip is pretty much the same thing than a track channel strip. The key concept here is the difference between track and channel strip. These are two different things that are independent from one another. A track is what you see in the Arrange window. Each track there is assigned to a channel strip.

Under the instrument number, the circles indicate the right (+) or left (-) stereo panning. Underneath that is the volume levels and these can be changed separately or all at once by choosing a group of instruments as long as they are all set to "post fader". Of course, these volume events can be changed by changing the CC7 controller in the MIDI list.
I think that "grouping" your channel strips would also allow pre-fader Send setting. The Group feature of the channel strips allows mainly to ease the manipulation of several channel strips with just one finger (the one on your mouse for instance). In a previous post where you point at your mixer screen capture, the Group 2 and 3 set on the channel strip Ins15 and Aux1, don't seem to be of any use.

And in the inspector, every track has as it's input bus 1 and output is stereo out.

These settings all seem correct as they all show up in the proper auxs.
??:eeek:??
Each channel strip (track ones and Aux ones) can be set a different Input and / or Output... In order to set the proper routing of the sounds it is important to have a clear idea of what you want to achieve.

But I can't record these settings so far to a single audio track. Yes, bouncing them works fine but, assuming these settings are correct, how do I set up the Audio 1 track for recording these multiple tracks into one track making sure the correct reverbs and balances are transmitted as they are in the regular bounce protocol?
What you need to achieve here, I assume, is to set the input of your Audio track channel strip to receive the result of the whole mix or each of the channel strips. In short you want the sum of these. For this, you have to Send (or set the Output) of each of your tracks and current Aux channel strips to a new Bus (i.e. Bus10) and then set your Audio track channel strip Input to that new bus (Bus10). Adjusting the View of your Mixer to show the Input and Output slots would ease the understanding of that process. However, considering that you already have 2 Audio channel strips (#1 and #22), it would be a good idea to decide in advance which will be used as the destination track channel strip. It would also be essential to disable the Sends currently used on the final Audio channel strip destination, in order to avoid feedback!
Thanks, Atlas!
though it appears to be the same piece as before, my new mixer setup is quite different from the old one:

http://www.egoldmidincd.com/new_mixer.jpg

Audio 2 is an optional narration track which I can mute or not for the recording. The destination track is Audio 1.

Yes, I pretty much understand now what you have written, except that I didn't understand about setting the input of the Audio 1 to a new bus as input. I will try that and get back to you.

Thanks again.

Ed
 
Upvote 0

Edgold

Logician
No, I've not been able to set up for recording to a track and getting much reverb if any at all. "Bouncing" to a file works fine and that's the only thing that seems to work, I don't know why.
 
Upvote 0

Edgold

Logician
I've made some progress on this by viewing a few YouTube tutorials

Edgold,

Would you be kind enough to post the links to these YouTube tutorials? I need all the help I can get. Thanks!
I don't know your level of advancement or where your interests lay but Mitchel's tutorials might be a place to start.



You can find many other tutorials to the right of these. Ifg you want something more specific, you might say what you need.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

Legacy

Logician
Thank you; I'll check them out! At the moment, I specifically need tutorials on using bus/aux/send for adding effects and also how to properly use compression/limiting when recording a lead vocal. Thanks!
 
Upvote 0

Edgold

Logician
Thank you; I'll check them out! At the moment, I specifically need tutorials on using bus/aux/send for adding effects and also how to properly use compression/limiting when recording a lead vocal. Thanks!
I think that these will be a good place to start for what you mention. But what I fail to understand is how to set up a track for recording and keeping those effects (especially reverb) in the final recording. Bouncing to a file is fine but to a track is disappointing.
 
Upvote 0

Legacy

Logician
Ed,

This video made the concept of setting up aux/buss for effects simple for me to understand:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

Atlas

Logician
No, I've not been able to set up for recording to a track and getting much reverb if any at all. "Bouncing" to a file works fine and that's the only thing that seems to work, I don't know why.
In your mixer setup picture, you did not enable the view of the Input or the Ouput slots of your channel strips. To ease your Input/Output settings of your channel strips you should enable the view of same. You should end up with channel strips looking like those posted here. Note the presence of the Input and Output slots display below the I/O label. In order to do so, in your Mixer window, in the View pull-down menu (right beside the Edit and Options ones, not the blue buttons to the top right), make sure that you have ticked the I/O item.

Also, you have to realize that if you bounce a channel strip that has no effect (i.e. reverb) either self-instanciated or receiving already wet signal, you will end up with a dry sound. If you monitor your sound from a different source, this could be confusing. For example, if you are bouncing channelstrip Audio 1 and are listening to the main output, depending of the position of the Fx in the signal flow chain, you could end up hearing wet signal, but the sound on Audio 1 could be dry, because your Fx is after Audio 1 and before main output (your monitor source).

In short, at present time, since we don't see what actually is the signal flow in your mixer (I/O slots being hidden), it is not possible to troubleshoot your issue...
 
Upvote 0

Edgold

Logician
Thanks again Atlas,

Same link but new file:
http://www.egoldmidincd.com/new_mixer.jpg

These should show the I/O slots. The crucial one for the present purposes is highlighted and shows sends for all busses/auxes going into Audio 1 which is the recording track. I've set all these to the max of 6.0 on the grounds that all the mixing has already happened and I want the maximum reverb sent to the audio file.

I'm wondering also if I'm not put off by the low strings opening which has a severe cutoff at one point not heard in the original file or the bounce to a file I usually do. There does seem to be some reverb after that.

Does this help?
 
Upvote 0

Atlas

Logician
Well, according to your last mixer setup, your Audio 1 track Input is set to Bus 10, which makes it the recipient of all the tracks that Outputs are set to Bus 10.
Your Audio 1 track Sends to Aux tracks 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 which have a reverb instantiated on each, but still, Audio 1 has no reverb instantiated on, nor does it receives any reverberated signal. Your Aux tracks 1, 2, 3, 5 Outputs are set to send their signal to Stereo Out (and Aux 4 to nowhere). Additionally, your Audio 1 track Send to Bus 10 which is in fact a feedback!

My advice:
1-Lower your Audio 1 track volume level to -15!
2- Remove from your Audio 1 all the track Sends, especially the one that send to Bus 10. They are of no use.
3- Change the Aux 1, Aux 2, Aux 3, Aux 4, Aux 5 tracks Outputs from Stereo Out to Bus 10.
4- Ensure that the Space Designers already instantiated on tracks Aux 1 through 5 are set to ON and that the Wet signal handle is set to the max (all the way to the right) and that dry level is pulled to the left.
 
Upvote 0

Edgold

Logician
Thanks again Atlas,

But I still don't totally understand, at least no. 4 of your advice."Ensure that the Space Designers already instantiated on tracks Aux 1 through 5 are set to ON and that the Wet signal handle is set to the max (all the way to the right) and that dry level is pulled to the left."

The Space Designers in this setup only exist in the auxes 1-5 and they have been set up to specific presets (Large hall and medium hall for example.) Why should I set all of them to dryness all the way left and the rev. (all the way) right? Or am I misunderstanding?

The rest of it is quite satisfactory. Thanks again!
 
Upvote 0

Edgold

Logician
Thanks again Atlas,

But I still don't totally understand, at least no. 4 of your advice."Ensure that the Space Designers already instantiated on tracks Aux 1 through 5 are set to ON and that the Wet signal handle is set to the max (all the way to the right) and that dry level is pulled to the left."

The Space Designers in this setup only exist in the auxes 1-5 and they have been set up to specific presets (Large hall and medium hall for example.) Why should I set all of them to dryness all the way left and the rev. (all the way) right? Or am I misunderstanding?

The rest of it is quite satisfactory. Thanks again!
 
Upvote 0

Pete Thomas

Administrator
Staff member
When reverbs are on a buss, you have them 100% wet, because there is no need for the dry signal. The signal that you send to the buss with the reverb gets mixed back i with the dry signal at the output buss, so the amount of wetness is dictated solely by the amount you send. If you want just a tiny bi of wetness, say 2%, you just send about that much of the signal to the buss. If the buss reverb ha dry signal, you'd just be adding back in more of that racks dry signal to the output so instead of just adding reverb by sending, you'd also be adding gain to that. It probably won't do any harm, except you'd probably be pulling all your levels down every time you send to that buss.

So add I bit of reverb to the vocal, the level goes up as well, make the vocal drier, the level comes down.
 
Upvote 0

Edgold

Logician
Thanks Pete, I understand what you are saying but, in that case, if all the auxiliaries are the same setting and the amount of reverb is controlled solely by the sends, why would you need more than one aux?

Or would you set up the others for plugins other than reverb?
 
Upvote 0

Pete Thomas

Administrator
Staff member
Thanks Pete, I understand what you are saying but, in that case, if all the auxiliaries are the same setting and the amount of reverb is controlled solely by the sends, why would you need more than one aux?

Or would you set up the others for plugins other than reverb?

I would have a couple of different reverbs, e.g. a small room on one aux, a longer hall or plate on another one.

I tend to send everything into the room to get some "roomness", especially if there is some MIDI or virtual instruments. Kind of makes everything sound like they are playing together in the same room, then add more or less of the reverb on different instruments/voices as appropriate. (Or not in many of my mixes).
 
Upvote 0

Edgold

Logician
All right, so the question would be, if you change the aux reverb to maximum wetness and dryness, are you still retaining the identity of the preset small room, plate or large hall in each case?

Apparently this is what I'm still misunderstanding.
 
Upvote 0

Pete Thomas

Administrator
Staff member
I don't really follow you. You don't change the reverb to wet or dry, you just leave it at 100% wet.

Logic is clever, it knows whether you are putting a reverb on an insert or an aux.

If you put a reverb on an aux it defaults to wet signal only. If you put it on an insert it will be something like 100% dry plus some wet or something similar and you would then adjust to taste.

It really is that simple. On an aux it's all 100% reverb and you merely adjust the amount of send to determine how wet or dry that instrument is.
 
Upvote 0
Top