Logic Pro 9 Switching to Logic from another DAW

[Gravity Jim]

Hello, all. My name is Jim, I'm a professional producer of commercial music, and I have used MOTU software for many years. My current studio machine is an 8-core Mac Pro running OSX 10.7, and I use MOTU audio and MIDI interfaces.

I'm thinking seriously of migrating to Logic Studio, and I'm here just looking for tips, advice, pitfalls, etc. If any of you have actually made the migration from DP to Logic, your input would be especially welcome.

Thanks in advance...

Jim Bordner
Gravity Music

 

[georgelegeriii]

I think that it has some pitfalls when it comes to how Logic works VS DP. Think German app VS american app... there is a fundamental difference in how they approach the same issues.

I have always divided the main Mac DAWs into 2 groups: DP and Pro Tools, US, and Cubase/Nuendo/Logic into the European camp. I can jump from one daw in a group to the other pretty easily. I went from Logic to nuendo and back for a while, and found it to be very easy.

I have a couple of clients (I do tech support in the music industry here in LA) who use DP, and they are always grumbling at me to learn DP. I have tried, and can do most things, but it took a while to "get" that DP, like ProTools, does midi as a track, a VI is a track, and an audio track is a single thing, and up until very recently, that is how they were, whereas Logic had midi for external, midi for the built in VI, and audio.

That means in DOP O make a midi track that drives the additional VI track. In Logic they are both in a single track under most circumstances. Now that we are getting into more multitimbral midi based devices (Kontakt, omnisphere, RMX for example) Logic people are starting to learn the DP way of doing things: Midi triggers VI sends to multi outputs for audio. BUT for Logic users, this wasn't the norm, and most oldt imers have had to adapt to this new way of working. In DP it is normal.

Logic has the track inspector, where your track modifiers live... midi quantization, velocity adjustments, placement on the time line in regards to moving the data back or forward in ticks or milliseconds... It makes adjustments very easy. In DP you have to open up a menu to do that, the same with ProTools.

It's really hard to explain (as you can see by my somewhat convoluted reply) but like I said, it's more of how one thinks with one DAW VS the other...

Does that make any sense yo you at all?

 

[zerobeat]

It would be best if you described what you hate most about and love most about Digital Performer. Then there could be some context.

All of the main DAWs (ProTools, Cubase/Nuendo, Sonar, DP, Logic) are very sophisticated and even ones like Reason/Record and Live (maybe others) are getting quite sophisticated (although they didn't start as DAWs but those features more recently migrated into their structure).

In 2011 all of them are capable of complex audio production.

Except SoundTrack Pro. That thing can drive a person to an early grave (as it almost did me until the school I teach at switched to ProTools 2 years ago).

 

[CSeye]

Hello,

MOTU hardware plays very nicely with all DAW, so no troubles in that department.

I switched from DP to Logic when v8 was released. The plan was to use both, but I found Logic to be more conducive to getting things done. Some things to consider:
1. DP has a beautiful interface with themes. Logic is very drab. There may be a wisdom to this drawn from the graphic arts world that uses a neutral gray background that helps keep a focus on the project details, and being easier on the eyes for long periods of exposure.

2. DP has built-in Melodyne-like pitch correction. Logic's built-in pitch correction functions are useable.

3. Logic has the really ease to use audio comp editing and Flex Time capabilities.

4. DP's audio editing functions are more like Pro Tools and more extensive than what's offered in Logic. Having said that, audio editing in Logic is a breeze.

5. Logic has the most extensive and most powerful MIDI features on the planet Earth!

6. DP is a very mouse-click intensive DAW. Logic is designed for a smooth work flow. Fewer mouse clicks are required to start making music. Many folks say that DP is very intuitive to them. I believe them but that was not my experience. It seems that different DAW designs, US vs European as George mentioned, seem to attract users whose brains are wired such that they find a particular DAW a good match for how they work. So ultimately, it comes down to personal preference.

 

[Eli]

This whole US vs German approach that George mentioned is interesting. IMHO, at the heart of the difference is the concept of "object oriented" sequencing.

Logic was built from the ground up on this concept. Tracks contain objects (regions). Those objects (regions) contain data that is then edited in separate editors. You can edit the object itself directly on the track (split, stretch, copy, delete regions etc). But to edit the actual content, you need to go into an editor. This is the same with either MIDI or audio regions.

Pro Tools deals with the data directly on the track. You edit the data itself right on the track. And that is the heart of the difference (again IMVHO).

I can't speak for DP or Cubase, I haven't used them. But that is my take on the main conceptual difference between Logic and PT.

 

[daveyboy]

Bring a fellow switcher (DP user for 15 years) I think the previous posters have covered some good areas. For me I find that Logic "mechanically" just runs better. I can keep a buffer of 128 and track direct guitars all day long and not be bothered by latency. This isn't the case for me in DP. Since I'm using all VIs I really like the fact that I have one track to deal with. It's very easy to bounce a midi track, or just part of a track, down to audio. Or, just freeze it (which is faster then real time). I love the track fader located in the left side as it makes more sense than DP. You have the track you're working on and the corresponding output of what ever you have selected next to it. If I click on a send I'll see the actual receive channel and can grab it quickly. I love that I can mute midi regions and single midi notes! Looping in Logic is miles ahead of DP so its very easy to get ideas down quickly. The included library of loops, VIs, samples and fantastic plugins is unbeatable. If you actually buy it, do yourself a favor and rent the videos at groove3.com to get up to speed. I still keep DP alive as I run a commercial studio and still do work in it but oddly it doesn't feel like coming home. Good luck.

 

[lesterbeat]

I've been using Logic for over a decade and think it's fantastic for film work. That said, I find some of DP's features very alluring. So much so that I've been tinkering with it on the side in case Apple does to Logic what they did to Final Cut (dumbed it down and removed key features). I cannot get my head around DP. However, I'll tell you what I think is great in DP and what needs work in Logic.
DP has some very useful tools for film scoring. The whole chunks concept means that you can have, in one project, all your cues for a film and a way to move them around and alter the tempo individually without disrupting the following cues. In Logic you can get the same result but it takes a bit of tinkering. I love the idea of having a whole film in one session.
DP also seems to have a way to have more than 1 movie per session. this is helpful, as they mention on their website, for when you want to create music for several cuts of the same project.
I also love the nested tracks feature in DP. It seems like it could keep your arrange window very clean buy closing folders that are unused.
Logic works great but I would love to see those 3 features implemented.
For me the problem is that the 64-bit version lacks some features that I rely on: export audio to movie, and the movie's volume slider is gone to name a few. Also the bridge that allows you to use 32-bit plug-ins is flakey.
I've also noticed that as I use more 3rd party plugins, Logic's own sampler (EXS24) starts to misbehave.
When I see film composers with their massive film scoring templates in DP, I get a little jealous. I have several templates with 100-200 tracks but something tells me that moving around them in DP is easier.
David

 

[LSchefman]

I switched to Logic from DP (I started in Performer back in '87) when Logic 8 came out. Really, I was just tired of looking at the DP interface and wanted something different.

I score commercials, do soundtracks, etc., like you. As a few have mentioned, DP and Logic come from different planets. I found Logic completely counter-intuitive at first. After a while it began to make more sense. I like it a lot, and now prefer it to DP.

I miss: chunks (and the racks feature); "wait" mode where I could insert SFX (or a MIDI note) exactly at a cut while the program waited for a midi note; having the application deal with multitimbral instruments automatically; linear style editing.

I see no real reason to switch from DP other than trying something different, actually. But I'll reiterate that I enjoy Logic now that I know it well and its personality now appeals to me more.

 

[Atlas]

Lesterbeat,

I also love the nested tracks feature in DP. It seems like it could keep your arrange window very clean buy closing folders that are unused.

Did you check Working with Folders (p.415) in the Logic Pro 9 User manual?

Gravity Jim,
I would suggest you peek at the specific areas in the Logic user manual that interest you, this would give you an idea of some features differences...

 

[daveyboy]

Lesterbeat,

I also love the nested tracks feature in DP. It seems like it could keep your arrange window very clean buy closing folders that are unused.

Did you check Working with Folders (p.415) in the Logic Pro 9 User manual?

Gravity Jim,
I would suggest you peek at the specific areas in the Logic user manual that interest you, this would give you an idea of some features differences...

I got some great tips on Logic's folders from some vids at macprovideo. You can put anything in a folder, chop it up and even loop it. You can now use DPs folders to chop up parts and copy and paste (probably not looping as looping in general in DP isn't the best). I sure rely on being able to mute midi notes and regions now and hope that DP catches up there.

 

[cedub]

Hey all,

I just wanted to chime in here as I'm just now making the switch from DP to Logic after more than 15 years using DP. And I just joined this forum so I thought this would be a good first place to post.

My reasons stem from my work with artists doing EDM and Hip-Hop as well as frustration trying to get Maschine to work in DP. I'm also frankly a little worried about the direction and future of MOTU. They do make some great products. Hardware is good, the VI's they make are awesome but they are a small company and there's a lot of competition out there. I'm also considering switching to ProTools for live tracking.

I got Logic about 6 months ago and spent several weeks trying to get it and failed miserably. It really is a completely different paradigm. The hardest part was general work flow. I am really fast in DP. I don't use the mouse a lot except for certain things. So keyboard shortcuts because a major stumbling block. There are a number of DP'isms that have become second nature to me and I'm sure those would be difficult for anyone new to the program (having to alt-click on a field to edit it ?!?).

Yesterday I decided to sit down with the "Exploring Logic" document and that changed everything. I finished chapter 2 and things are starting to make a lot of sense. I highly recommend anyone new to Logic to run through this doc top to bottom before going out and buying a book as I was about to.

I figured out a major piece of workflow by modifying key commands that will interest DP users. The dot trick. In fact, I've found that I can do this even better in Logic.

Here's how it works. Press the period on the number pad. This selects the bar field in the transport (you have to set this up in DP's key command). Type the bar number and hit enter. Seems like a little thing but what you can do with this is a huge time saver when you combine it with start/end selection, or in Logic, set location right/left. It's also handy for general navigation. I set up my Logic keypad so that i can go to a bar, set start and end locations and split a selected object all in a matter of a few seconds. I can share my keyboard command template if anyone is interested.

Other things about Logic that blew my mind was how easy it is to manipulate audio and midi. I'm just scratching the surface but so far I've seen several things that you just can't do in DP or at least easily.

I'm still going to use DP for my live recording. I learned on tape and the linear approach works for me. But as I said, I may be moving to ProTools for that one of these days (when I can muster up the $700 entry fee.)

 

[cedub]

could someone tell me how to find a page number in the user manual? i didn't get a printed manual, only the electronic apple help version that doesn't seem to have page numbers.

 

[cedub]

one thing that i can't figure out is whether or not Logic allows for multiple sequences. in DP, i can have one project open, set up a sequence of tracks and then duplicate that sequence for the rest of the songs. this is how i do a live session with a band. i have one project and a separate sequence for each song. this way i can switch between songs quickly and don't have to set up a new project for each.

also, i'm guessing there is no equivalent to DP's rack. i use the rack for mastering. i set up one rack that i can use for every sequence so that they all get the exact same set of plugins and plugin settings.

 

[forgetr]

one thing that i can't figure out is whether or not Logic allows for multiple sequences. in DP, i can have one project open, set up a sequence of tracks and then duplicate that sequence for the rest of the songs. this is how i do a live session with a band. i have one project and a separate sequence for each song. this way i can switch between songs quickly and don't have to set up a new project for each.

also, i'm guessing there is no equivalent to DP's rack. i use the rack for mastering. i set up one rack that i can use for every sequence so that they all get the exact same set of plugins and plugin settings.

You can create templates. Set up your track configuration, File > Save As Template... As for the "rack" thing, I'm going to venture to say that Channel Strip settings are the closest thing. You can save individual channel strip settings as presets and then reload them later.

 

[daveyboy]

one thing that i can't figure out is whether or not Logic allows for multiple sequences. in DP, i can have one project open, set up a sequence of tracks and then duplicate that sequence for the rest of the songs. this is how i do a live session with a band. i have one project and a separate sequence for each song. this way i can switch between songs quickly and don't have to set up a new project for each.

also, i'm guessing there is no equivalent to DP's rack. i use the rack for mastering. i set up one rack that i can use for every sequence so that they all get the exact same set of plugins and plugin settings.

All this is DP only. I'm DP turned logic guy. This makes DP sound great btw🙂 I've just learned to compromise as the benefits have outweighed the deficits for me.

 

[Markdvc]

could someone tell me how to find a page number in the user manual? i didn't get a printed manual, only the electronic apple help version that doesn't seem to have page numbers.

The Logic User Manual is also available in pdf form, it may be D/Led here:

http://documentation.apple.com/en/logicpro/

Just FYI, we mention this in the FAQ here:

http://www.logic-users-group.com/index.php?q=126.html

There might be a few other tips there that are interesting for you 🙂

kind regards

Mark

 

[Eli]

Hi Cedub,

Just to echo what Daveyboy said; there are no equivalents in Logic to multiple Sequences in DP. And since there is no equivalent to multiple Sequences within a single Project, the idea of the V-Rack isn't really relevant.

Having said this, there are a few, far less elegant than DPs Sequences, ways of possibly getting close to what you want. In the scenario you describe of tracking multiple songs, you could pack each song into it's own folder. That way they can all access the same effects processing and software instruments like V-Racks allows in DP. One big limitation though, compared to sequences, is that folders do not contain unique tempo tracks. There are a couple of ways of managing this though:

First, if you are tracking multiple songs live and the DAW tempo is irrelevant, you can just pack folders with each song, and have the folders stacked vertically, all starting at the same bar position. Just keep them muted except for the current one you are working on.

If you do need to work with the DAWs tempo (if you are using MIDI, etc) there are two scenarios that will work:

1. Pack each song into folders and stack them vertically all at the same time position as described above. Logic allows for 9 alternate tempo tracks. So, you can switch to a new tempo track and set it to match each song's tempo. The limitation is that there is a maximum of 9. And you will need to switch tempo tracks manually when you mute/un-mute the different folders/songs.

2. Pack each song into a folder but lay them out horizontally along the timeline. This way you don't need to deal with muting/un-muting them. You can use tempo changes at each new song's location as necessary. Plus you can put markers in at each new song/folder; so that it is easy to jump back and forth between them.

In these scenarios, all plugin-ins and instruments are available to each folder/song since everything is in the same Project. So the V-Rack thing is covered.

Another more "Logic-centric" approach would be to work on your first tune, get it set up as you need with all of your plug-ins and instruments; then when it is done, do a "save as" and save as a new project for the second song. Then in this new document, delete the song data, and start your second song. repeat for each song. Drawbacks to this: you need to open and close projects for each song. And plug-in changes you make to one while mixing will not automatically updated in the subsequent song/projects. But to work around this you could use channel strip settings to bring in channel strips with plug-ins laid out as you want as they develop. Or you could use the import tracks function to bring in Aux tracks with effects plug-ins for mixing. Although, this isn't a particularly elegant way to work, since you would then need to assign the channel strips to the imported aux tracks as necessary.

So, as you can see, there's no one magic answer, but lot's of possible work-flows to suit the tasks at hand.

Welcome to Logic 🙂)

 

[cedub]

thanks for the suggestions. i think there are some workable scenarios here.

regarding saving channel strips, is this something that can be saved in the media/library panel?

- chris

 

[Eli]

thanks for the suggestions. i think there are some workable scenarios here.

regarding saving channel strips, is this something that can be saved in the media/library panel?

- chris

Hi Chris,

You save Channel Strip Settings from the Channel Strip Settings menu at the top of any channel strip. They will then appear in the Library on the right when it is open, or in the drop down menu of available channel strip settings accessed from the channel strip settings field at the top of channel strips.

 

[cedub]

awesome! thanks again. this forum rocks.

- chris