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Logic TDM The nightmare that is L9 TDM

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spacewars

New Member
Anyone here using L9 TDM on a regular basis is likely familiar with the alarming drop in stability and attendant rise in hair-pulling that has befallen us since L9's release. I will just say this:
I have it on completely reliable authority that Apple "will not even be looking at these issues until January 2010". On the plus side, I may be able to provide some hints as to whether the TDM-related nightmares are going to be resolved and how the process is or isn't going. I don't work for Apple or Digidesign, but have access to accurate information on this topic. So if this is of interest to you, then my occasional cryptic, vague posts here might hopefully provide some measure of usefulness over the next few months.

In the meantime, please let me know whether you've experienced any of the following issues, as I'm curious if it's just me (and I can forward this information to relevant parties who can actually do something about it.)

- DAE Error -9060 when going into or coming out of record

- Native audio side "resetting itself" (VIs reinstanciating/reloading their data, etc) randomly after performing edits on DAE audio with scissors or other tools, which should have no effect on the native side whatsoever

- Crash when trying to go into record, spinning beach ball/pinwheel

- Crashes when trying to go into Play with Ableton running as Rewire slave

- Depression over the whole Apple purchase of Emagic in the first place

- Deep longing for the days when Logic TDM worked in a professional manner

- Resentment at the whole concept of "native audio"

- Nostalgia for a time when it was TDM or the highway

:brkwl:

Happy Holidays.


-sw
 
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C

crimsonnoise

Logician
I installed Logic 9.02, Mac OS 10.5.8, Pro Tools 8.01cs1. Working fine so far with core audio and TDM. The only thing so far I found is the new "bounce in place" seems to be wanting to access TDM tracks/plugins when it should just stay within the native side. So to answer your questions:

- DAE Error -9060 when going into or coming out of record:

No record working fine here.

- Native audio side "resetting itself" (VIs reinstanciating/reloading their data, etc) randomly after performing edits on DAE audio with scissors or other tools, which should have no effect on the native side whatsoever

DAE editing fine here.

- Crash when trying to go into record, spinning beach ball/pinwheel

No I don't get this.

- Crashes when trying to go into Play with Ableton running as Rewire slave

I don;t use Rewire - so I don't know.

- Depression over the whole Apple purchase of Emagic in the first place

Yes!

- Deep longing for the days when Logic TDM worked in a professional manner

Yes!

- Resentment at the whole concept of "native audio"

Not at all. Native audio is getting better and better.

- Nostalgia for a time when it was TDM or the highway

A little bit...
 
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tigerman

Logician
i have a fresh new mac pro and l 9.0.2 with pthd2 accel... still installing.. i'll let you know once i'm operative :p

Hope i will not get any of your issue..
Plug-in core audio reload is here since version 6, before was crashing logic without save, since 7.2 it just reloads, better than a crash !!

Honestly i miss OS9 , since the beginning of OSX logic tdm (and even some logic aspects) are gone down, and down.... and down..

i'm still on this boat, cause after 15 years it's hard to start over again with another daw...
this is probably the last time i stay on pro-tools hardware, next upgrade i'll sell the whole digidesign stuff...or...i start using pro-tools daw....or i go to pc and use cubase, who knows..
 
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crimsonnoise

Logician
In fact I did get the DAE 9060 error now as well. The workaround is to record WAV files now. This used to just record white noise in the past, but is working fine now.

However, I came across one other strange problem. With only DAE enabled, or DAE+DTDM enabled, Logic crashes occasionally on loading a session. DAE+Core Audio seems fine.

On bigger sessions, when I have to load loads of cues and don't want Core Audio enabled, as projects take a long time to load due to EXS, Kontakt etc, I use now Logic 8 again - the good thing is that it's no problem going back and forth between the two.
 
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phineas Phareek

phineas Phareek

Logician
I have Logic 9.0.2 / PT8.0.1(HD3A system) on Mac pro 10.5.8 2x192's + 1x FF400

I have none of these issues. It sounds to me like you're getting instability at OS level, try running a cleaning script like ONYX to clear caches and reset permissions etc.

The only new wierdness I've got is QL play will crash the whole system if DAE drivers are active.....Anyone elso got this? It works fine with just core audio, and with Vienna Ensemble (Unless dae is active in logic, then it crashes in ensemble too).

Cheers.

P
 
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tigerman

Logician
crimsonnoise said:
In fact I did get the DAE 9060 error now as well. The workaround is to record WAV files now. This used to just record white noise in the past, but is working fine now.

However, I came across one other strange problem. With only DAE enabled, or DAE+DTDM enabled, Logic crashes occasionally on loading a session. DAE+Core Audio seems fine.

On bigger sessions, when I have to load loads of cues and don't want Core Audio enabled, as projects take a long time to load due to EXS, Kontakt etc, I use now Logic 8 again - the good thing is that it's no problem going back and forth between the two.
Click to expand...

I had a problem reopening an old heavy project done in l8 ppc in l9 macintel
I've succesfully opened it after having restored all of the apple loops i had in the previous system, no crashes anymore

Don't know if it's related... hope this helps
cheers
 
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C

crimsonnoise

Logician
phineas Phareek said:
The only new wierdness I've got is QL play will crash the whole system if DAE drivers are active.....Anyone elso got this? It works fine with just core audio, and with Vienna Ensemble (Unless dae is active in logic, then it crashes in ensemble too).
P
Click to expand...

EWQL Play (I only run Voices of Passion v 1.0.83) working fine here with Core Audio and DAE enabled.
 
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tigerman

Logician
crimsonnoise said:
phineas Phareek said:
The only new wierdness I've got is QL play will crash the whole system if DAE drivers are active.....Anyone elso got this? It works fine with just core audio, and with Vienna Ensemble (Unless dae is active in logic, then it crashes in ensemble too).
P
Click to expand...

EWQL Play (I only run Voices of Passion v 1.0.83) working fine here with Core Audio and DAE enabled.
Click to expand...

SO another user of dae + core audio without esb ?

how is your config? i use motu with 3 adat to communicate between the two systems..
do you still use dae audio tracks ? i use only core audio tracks, basically the tdm is just a mixer.
 
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tigerman

Logician
Cool, i have to advise you that if you use dae tracks there are some timing issues, at least in logic 8, but i think it's still here in logic 9
If you want to check try to do a core audio and dae audio track and put the same audio file in both tracks.
then align them perfectly in order to get a perfect sync (higher volume and no flanger)

Ok now cut both audio with the scissors at every bar for example and play without moving anything

you will hear that everytime song position hit the cuts the flanger effect changes
the difference is minimal, but using dae tracks or exstdm or esb or even dae prelisten while core audio is on causes that slight timing issues...
Every audio will be affected by that, you will get those timing issue even within 2 core audio tracks (if there are other dae track running at the same time)

I'ma sample accurate maniac so i've chosen to drop also dae audio track and use everything in core audio.

cheers :)
 
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crimsonnoise

Logician
Thanks. Yes, these timing issues have always been present in the DAE+Core Audio combo. I did my own tests and at Core Audio 128 samples buffer the variations are never more than 1.5ms which is fine for my purposes. I only use the DAE tracks for orchestral recording. Anything else, eg, programmed percussion is done in Core Audio.
 
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T

tigerman

Logician
phineas Phareek said:
I have Logic 9.0.2 / PT8.0.1(HD3A system) on Mac pro 10.5.8 2x192's + 1x FF400

I have none of these issues. It sounds to me like you're getting instability at OS level, try running a cleaning script like ONYX to clear caches and reset permissions etc.

The only new wierdness I've got is QL play will crash the whole system if DAE drivers are active.....Anyone elso got this? It works fine with just core audio, and with Vienna Ensemble (Unless dae is active in logic, then it crashes in ensemble too).

Cheers.

P
Click to expand...

if you own kontakt you can load those libraries inside it and abandon that outdated plug-ins..
newer kontakts releases both v3 and v4 has a cool menu on the left where you can organize all of your kontakt/impakt/intakt based libraries
 
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phineas Phareek

phineas Phareek

Logician
I fixed the 'Play not working' bug.....I removed the RTAS version of Vienna ensemble pro from the relevant folder and Play worked again in Core audio+DAE mode....strange?

The only response I got from quantum leap tech support was, and I quote:

"I have just confirmed that DAE mode is not officially supported. This would be what the root of that problem was."

..........Really helpful.
 
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