Logic Pro X UNITOR-8 II not functioning for Roland Bank Select Messages ONLY!

JamesBRey

Logician
Hi Group.


Found a really strange bug I am looking to confirm or deny.

When using Logic X and a Unitor-8 II both with current OS - there is a problem sending Bank Select messages in the Roland format. Not sure if this applies to other formats but will check later.

Thought the issue was with my Roland gear, but after much head scratching, I realized it was a bug in the Unitor 8 as when I tried the exact same messages in Logic using an NI interface - the bank select worked properly.

This is for this type of command:

Control 1 0 87
Control 1 32 0
Program 1 1

Control 1 0 87
Control 1 32 64
Program 1 1

Control 1 0 87
Control 1 32 32
Program 1 1


Functions well using the NI interface - but does not work when using the Unitor. I've done a Factory reset on the Unitor as well. Any ideas?


Thanks. jr
 

Peter Ostry

Administrator
Staff member
Just an idea:
Maybe the Unitor is faster than the NI interface and too fast for the Roland gear? To test, you can make 3 buttons in the Logic Environment with the necessary events and send the messages by clicking them in the right order. If this works, it may be a matter of timing.
 

JamesBRey

Logician
Good idea for diagnosis of the issue. Will do some tests tonoight and let you know what I find. Thanks for weighing in!
 

JamesBRey

Logician
Hi.

Ran some tests last night and your idea of the speed was a good one but not the reason for the failure. Tested the same no matter what the speed of the transmission. I did discover the problem though and it is a really weird one.

Here is what I saw on MIDI MONITOR looking at what Logic is sending to the interfaces:

19:17:44.311 To Komplete Audio 6 Control 1 0 87
19:17:44.314 To Komplete Audio 6 Control 1 32 64
19:17:44.316 To Komplete Audio 6 Program 1 1
19:17:45.247 To Komplete Audio 6 Control 1 0 87
19:17:45.253 To Komplete Audio 6 Control 1 32 0
19:17:45.259 To Komplete Audio 6 Program 1 1
19:17:46.291 To Komplete Audio 6 Control 1 0 87
19:17:46.298 To Komplete Audio 6 Control 1 32 64
19:17:46.305 To Komplete Audio 6 Program 1 1
19:17:47.267 To Komplete Audio 6 Control 1 0 87
19:17:47.275 To Komplete Audio 6 Control 1 32 0
19:17:47.281 To Komplete Audio 6 Program 1 1
19:17:47.879 To Komplete Audio 6 Program 1 1
19:17:47.879 To Komplete Audio 6 Control 1 32 0
19:17:47.879 To Komplete Audio 6 Control 1 0 87
19:18:16.114 To Port 8 Program 1 1
19:18:17.051 To Port 8 SysEx E-mu 8 bytes F0 18 04 06 00 00 08 F7
19:18:17.057 To Port 8 Program 1 1
19:18:18.102 To Port 8 Program 1 1
19:18:19.073 To Port 8 SysEx E-mu 8 bytes F0 18 04 06 00 00 08 F7
19:18:19.078 To Port 8 Program 1 1
19:18:20.114 To Port 8 Program 1 1
19:18:21.051 To Port 8 SysEx E-mu 8 bytes F0 18 04 06 00 00 08 F7
19:18:21.057 To Port 8 Program 1 1
19:18:22.102 To Port 8 Program 1 1
19:18:23.073 To Port 8 SysEx E-mu 8 bytes F0 18 04 06 00 00 08 F7
19:18:23.078 To Port 8 Program 1 1
19:18:23.667 To Port 8 Program 1 1
19:18:23.667 To Port 8 SysEx E-mu 8 bytes F0 18 04 06 00 00 08 F7



This is the exact same region in Logic playing back on the two different interfaces. In the case of the NI interface, it plays exactly like what is contained in Logic's event list to perfection.

When changing the output to Unitor-8, Port 8 - you can see what was transmitted is nothing like the original. How this happens I have no idea but I suspect it is a bug in the driver for the Unitors or maybe in the Unitor itself. Any ideas where to go from here?


TIA! jr
 

Peter Ostry

Administrator
Staff member
But in MIDI Monitor "To Port 8" means what goes out to port 8.
Someone sends this SysEx strings to the Unitor. Maybe Logic, maybe not.
How is the readout if you also switch on all sources in MIDI Monitor? "From" and "To" should be close together, probably you can see if there is another sender or a kind of loop or feedback.
 

JamesBRey

Logician
Peter, will try what you suggest later to confirm the finding but there is no EMU gear on in the studio and this is the exact same region in Logic that is playing back and you see the difference in the output to the two ports. It should be identical, and with the ROLAND misbehaving on reception I am sure that there is some corruption somewhere - or I would see the PC and CC commands in the "OUT" window at the very least.

I suspect there is something with that particular combo of Roland CC numbers that trigger some bug in the driver or Unitor itself. If I send CC or PC separately they show and play fine.

Thanks. jr
 

Peter Ostry

Administrator
Staff member
What you call "OUT" and the MIDI Monitor calls "To" goes from your Mac to the Unitor. How should the Unitor change a message it has not even seen yet? Therefore it would be good to see the "From" messages also. Someone must send this SysEx message and I am curious who does it.

In MIDI Monitor you cannot see what the Unitor sends to your Roland device. This is just in the cable between the two. So the failure must be somewhere else.



Regarding the "particular combo of Roland CC numbers":
There is nothing special or Roland-ish in this message. CC 0 + CC 32 + Program Change is a standard bank change message.

Regarding "E-mu gear":
It just happens that 18 (hexadecimal) is the manufacturer number of E-mu in SysEx strings. Because it is the first number after F0, MIDI Monitor thinks that it is an E-mu message. Actually it can be anything.
 

JamesBRey

Logician
Good information, all! Thanks. I thought maybe the driver was corrupting the message on the way out and MIDI MONITOR was able to see that.

With help from a cool guy at Gearslutz I think the problem is that Logic cannot send CC 0 or CC 32 inside a region through a Multi-Instrument, while it does work with the normal MIDI instrument. This would explain why it works through the NI and not the U8 since I have them set up that way.

Will test more tonight and let you know more tomorrow! Much Thanks! jr
 

JamesBRey

Logician
I have confirmed last night that the issue is with the Multi Instrument in LOGIC X. It is blocking the CC0 and CC32 bank select commands to the output if you have those messages in a region.

There are workarounds, but I wonder if this is a bug in Logic or they have a reason for doing this so that the Multi-Instrument handles the Bank Select chores without interference.


Best, vpg
 

Peter Ostry

Administrator
Staff member
This is not the only place where we can't use certain MIDI events. Some programmer seems to believe that he must take care about something we may not think of. But actually our control possibilities get reduced this way. Let's call it a bug.

Ok, problem isolated.
But where is the SysEx coming from?
 

JamesBRey

Logician
Good question! I strpped down all my gear to troubleshoot the above more easily and will bring some stuff online now to see where that SYSEX is coming from. Good to know about that Multi Instrument bug. What are the other MIDI events you speak of that are blocked automatically by Logic? Prefer to not get caught unawares next time ....

I wonder if I should report the Multi bug to Apple or if it is a "feature".

Thanks. jr
 

Peter Ostry

Administrator
Staff member
What are the other MIDI events you speak of that are blocked automatically by Logic? Prefer to not get caught unawares next time ....
Nothing hidden so far I know. For example, look at the output list in the MIDI FX Plugin "Modulator". There are a lot of numbers missing.

I wonder if I should report the Multi bug to Apple or if it is a "feature".
Report. At least it tells Apple that you are not happy with the way it works.
 
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