Logic Pro X What's the use of plugin manager

oortone

Logician
Since El Capitan there might be problems with Audio Units not showing after installation, or not being removed. Not unless the computer is rebooted.
From my point of view that means that the Plugin Manager in Logic is not really a plugin manager anymore since it unable to detect some installations or removals. A rescan in the plugn manager is not really a rescan since it might miss installations or removals.

The only way to know for sure is to reboot the computer, and then probably a rescan will not be needed. At least not in my experience.
So what do I need the Plugin Manager for nowdays?

And is there really no way to make the system find changes to Audio Units without rebooting?
Maybe some Terminal command?
Isn't it kind of 1995-ish having to reboot after installing a minor software?
 

fuzzfilth

Logician
Unless you're installing AUs daily (why?), it should not be such a big problem to restart the computer.

PM lets you choose which of the installed plugins you actually want to see in Logic. Think of Waves' hopelessly bloated menus filled to the brim with one-trick-ponies which you may or may not want cluttering your workspace. Also, you can categorize plugins into submenus to your liking.
 
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oortone

Logician
If troubleshooting by removing plugins that's a lot of restarting. Also when trying out demos. I think it's a step backwards having to reboot when installing minor softwares. It would be much better and 2021 with a real plugin manager.

Also, there's no way to find information on non working plugins this way. Having it silently removed is not the same thing as being able to get information from a proper manager.

However, of course the ability to remove a particuilar plugin from Logic can somtimes be a benefit if one is using various AU-hosts for completely different purposes.
 
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bayswater

Logician
The plugin manager in Logic is there to deal with the way Logic sees the plugins that you have in the relevant folders -- in Logic's case, the Components folder. It doesn't determine what plugins are there, and it shouldn't. I use three DAWs and a couple of audio editors that use AU plugins and I don't want Logic, or any other app, determining what the others can see and use.

As for rebooting, yes, the general rule for plugins, as per the companies that make them, is you should restart a Mac after you install a plugin. I don't know why that would be a problem. You might argue that the makers should make installers that do all the things needed to complete an installation without a restart, assuming that's possible, but that's not the fault of the plugin manager in Logic or any other DAW.

I've come across third party plugin managers from time to time, but these are not going to make it unnecessary to restart. Otherwise they don't do much that you can't do yourself by moving plugins in an out of a "unused" folder using the Finder.
 
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oortone

Logician
Normally I don't need a restart.
Most plugin installations are happy with a user logout/login.

Yes, this is why it's so strange that there are certain plugins that needs restart, and nobody seems to know why that is. Even logout/login should normally not be necessary.

Normally an installer will prompt the user for a restart if that's needed (or logout/login) and that's very rare nowdays on macOS since very few programs are supposed to mess with kernel extensions and low level stuff. However, when it comes to plugins it seems like the vendors themselves don't know if a restart is needed or not. That's definitely a mess and indicates that the system itself needs a tool for managing plugins.

I don't use AU plugins on iOS, is restart needed there too?
 
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Gio

Logician
Normally I don't need a restart.
Most plugin installations are happy with a user logout/login.
Totally on board with logouts. Just one time I had a bit of a tussle with a sonnox (at the time Sony-Oxford) plug-in that the only cure was a hard start.
From time to time, on large projects coming through, I do a hard shut down and formal reboot to flagellate any attitudes out of the rig and deliver steady results, with minimal heart attacks and 11th hour anomalies.
Mileage will vary depending on rig, and client budget.
 
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fuzzfilth

Logician
The restart- rule ja really just a cover-all-cases statement that makes everyone's lives easier. Adhere to it and you're safe. Dismiss it and you may be fine. Or not. But you did so by your own choice and knowledge and you know how to solve it.

Imaging the other option, where plugin vendors would need to list dozens of slightly different install instructions, for every minuscule system variation, it would make actually reading the EULA look like a worthwile endeavour.
 
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oortone

Logician
...

Imaging the other option, where plugin vendors would need to list dozens of slightly different install instructions, for every minuscule system variation, it would make actually reading the EULA look like a worthwile endeavour.

Modern professional software vendors provide installers so I really don't see what you mean here. Usually you don't need to more than click through the options provided, which are simple. And of course, if restart is needed you will be asked to commit to that.

Today, the big ones often provides a complete management structure (called things like "XYZ Software Center") so you don't even have to start separate installers for each plugin. Even so, they don't seem to be able to provide the right functionality for plugins to be properly presented to the DAWs and instead recommends a complete restart "if your plugin does not show up" as a solution in FAQ. This indicates a problem that needs to be solved in the way plugins and OS works.
 
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Peter Ostry

Administrator
Staff member
Today, the big ones often provides a complete management structure (called things like "XYZ Software Center") so you don't even have to start separate installers for each plugin
Sorry, but I lost you during this thread. Can you please provide a list of DAW´s that work how you decribe, setup with plugins without plugin installation?
 
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oortone

Logician
Sorry, but I lost you during this thread. Can you please provide a list of DAW´s that work how you decribe, setup with plugins without plugin installation?

"The big ones" is refering to plugin makers; Arturia, NI, Softube e.t.c And of course, even those who still uses installers per plugin usually does not expect you do stuff that they can put in the installation script.

But it is not a Logic specific problem. It's rather a problem related to three parties; plugin makers, macOS and DAW:s. First two pobably the most important in the quest of solving it. Logic however is not any DAW but Apple's DAW so I expecting them to have a better understanding of AU:s failing to install/uninstall properly and passing information to the user would be a reasonable expectation. I used to trust the plugin manager in Logic to spot erroneous plugins but not any more unfortunately.

I found this thread that might shed some light on the issue:
You can force the AU cache to rebuild by deleting the cache file in ~/Library/Caches/com.apple.audiounits.cache while GarageBand is not running, then launch it again

Although Terminal is of course nothing every user is expected to use, myself I will have a go at it next time plugins fail to show up after installation.
 
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