Logic Pro (X) Control Surface that controls 3rd party instruments and plugins in Logic X
- Thread starter Jim
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Hmmm - I guess I don't know what you mean by "3rd party plugins". I have a couple of non-Logic plugins - D16 Group "Repeater" and "VerbSuite Classics" sitting on my mix buss. I press the "PLUG-IN" switch, select the mix buss, the 3 inserted plugins show up in Vpot 1, Vpot 2, Vpot 3 - I push Vpot 1 and can control Ozone 8.
works as documented in the Logic Pro X Control Surfaces Support manual, Chapter 4, "Mackie Control Plug-in".
No idea what question you asked Behringer support...
You can also program the X-Touch to allow it to control "Smart Controls" from the Vpots. It's a bit tricky, but can certainly be done.
I have used Smart Controls (try the Electronic Drums 12 preset) to map multiple controls/plugins. Run Logic Remote on an iPad and you can get the smart controls on your tablet. Really handy
works as documented in the Logic Pro X Control Surfaces Support manual, Chapter 4, "Mackie Control Plug-in".
No idea what question you asked Behringer support...
You can also program the X-Touch to allow it to control "Smart Controls" from the Vpots. It's a bit tricky, but can certainly be done.
I have used Smart Controls (try the Electronic Drums 12 preset) to map multiple controls/plugins. Run Logic Remote on an iPad and you can get the smart controls on your tablet. Really handy
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For "Instruments" I get the same thing. 3rd party instrument - Miroslav Philharmonik 2 - press the Instrument button on X-Touch, then choose the instrument from the proper Vpot - control of virtual instrument. Same in Logic Remote, except that in Logic Remote I get the keyboard plus the 8 buttons on top. Very handy. As documented.
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Thanks. I asked them if it works with 3rd party plugins in Logic. They said anything not supported by the mackie protocol won't work with it. I use Omnisphere in Logic and works great of course, but can't get it to work in Logic 9. with the X Touch with Omnisphere. It works great with all my Logic plugins though. He said it still won/t work with smart control in Logic X for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Maybe there are some 3rd party plugins that are supported with MC mode. Not sure. Do you use any Spectrasonics plugins with the Vpots, or know anyone that does by any chance, They said the BCF 2000 works with smart controls because you can map it..
Thinking of getting Logic X, but just don't need it unless it can give me this functionality. I did not see anything in the Logic surface manual about 3rd party plugins but will check.
Thanks, J
Thinking of getting Logic X, but just don't need it unless it can give me this functionality. I did not see anything in the Logic surface manual about 3rd party plugins but will check.
Thanks, J
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paulnajar
Logician
Logic nine &10 can control many third-party plug-ins using any control surface that supports MCU protocol. The text that might get displayed by the third party plugin is up to the third party developer to support appropriate labels. Your x touch will do just fine just so long as the third party plug-in you’re trying to use has got the necessary code built in. If not then lobby the third party developer
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And as long as there are no bugs in the X Touch software, that receives, interprets and re-sends the parameters.
The conclusion is wrong. These protocols do not care about the type of plugins. They don't even care about Logic. They are just common languages for devices and software which interpret them. No protocol works directly with plugins. A plugin discloses it's parameters to Logic. Logic sends them to the "Device" you installed in Logic's Control Surface Setup. This is a piece of software that translates the data to another "language", the Mackie protocol. The hardware interprets the messages and distributes them to it's physical control elements. Then you can move some controls, the data is sent back to the Control Surface "Device", then to the Controller Asignments, where all the mapping happens. Finally the data should reach the plugin.
Of course there are many chances to fail somewhere. Improperly programmed plugins, bugs in the Control Surface "Device", or bugs in the hardware controller. But Spectrasonics has proven software, I am pretty sure that Omnisphere is controllable.
Maybe your Omnisphere configuration is not complete,
remote control is related to automation:
Omnisphere Host Automation
Maybe worth a look:
In Logic's Control Surface Setup are three devices for the same protocol available:
Emagic Logic Control, Mackie Designs MCU Pro, Mackie Designs Mackie Control.
I don't think there is much difference, but in case Behringer did not tell you the exact name you may try another one.
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Thanks for your reply. it is under MC for how I'm using it. All I can say is this is what Behringer said when I was on with support with them after Spectrasonics phone support tried everything, host automation, CC midi learn etc, no luck. This is how I found out from Behringer that the x touch only works with plugins that come with logic, They said the older BCF 2000 does work with 3rd party because it can be mapped and said the X touch cannot because it is either HUI or MC.
My Logic plugins work great with the X Touch. Spectrasonics plugins work as should as well with logic, but not at all with the X Touch in Logic. I use Logic 9 so there is no smart control there.
Thanks for your input again. My knowledge with this only goes so far.
Jim
My Logic plugins work great with the X Touch. Spectrasonics plugins work as should as well with logic, but not at all with the X Touch in Logic. I use Logic 9 so there is no smart control there.
Thanks for your input again. My knowledge with this only goes so far.
Jim
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I asked a German friend who uses Omnisphere professionally and owns a MCU.
Here is a translation of his answer:
This tells us where the problem is. Neither the Behringer X Touch nor Logic, nor the Mackie protocol are to blame. It is a matter of the Spectrasonics software. Omnisphere is a complex plugin and has it's own system to assign external controllers. A MCU and similar controllers are not built to assign single parameters manually, these devices rely on parameter lists sent by the host (Logic). I do not know why Logic does not send the Omnisphere parameters on the fly, maybe this is not possible.
At least you can be sure that it is not a matter of the type of plugins, third-party or Logic. Both are controllable via the Mackie protocol. A couple of plugins do not work this way, these are exceptions. You may consider another, additional controller if controlling Omnisphere is important to you. The Behringer BCF2000 is a rather cheap option for that, you run it as a standard MIDI controller and it should let you assign the controls you want.
I am afraid this is all I can do for you, explaining what technically happens. I don't have Omnisphere and sold my Logic Control a while ago, so I have nothing to test here.
Here is a translation of his answer:
"If I want to control or automate parameters, I have to enable host automation in Omnisphere. Then I can assign an external controller by right clicking on the parameter and moving something on the hardware unit. I haven't tried that with the MCU but I know that some parameters are shown there. Since the MCU shows different parameters depending on the situation I cannot say if Omnisphere is reliable controllable via the MCU or not. Maybe I'll try it later when I have more time."
This tells us where the problem is. Neither the Behringer X Touch nor Logic, nor the Mackie protocol are to blame. It is a matter of the Spectrasonics software. Omnisphere is a complex plugin and has it's own system to assign external controllers. A MCU and similar controllers are not built to assign single parameters manually, these devices rely on parameter lists sent by the host (Logic). I do not know why Logic does not send the Omnisphere parameters on the fly, maybe this is not possible.
At least you can be sure that it is not a matter of the type of plugins, third-party or Logic. Both are controllable via the Mackie protocol. A couple of plugins do not work this way, these are exceptions. You may consider another, additional controller if controlling Omnisphere is important to you. The Behringer BCF2000 is a rather cheap option for that, you run it as a standard MIDI controller and it should let you assign the controls you want.
I am afraid this is all I can do for you, explaining what technically happens. I don't have Omnisphere and sold my Logic Control a while ago, so I have nothing to test here.
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Thank you very much for all of this Peter. I was able to get Omnisphere and Trillion by Spectrasonics working the other day through Host automation, and I obviously was missing something on my end on forst attempt. Everything seems to work as should. Please thank your friend for me. I also told Behringer that it does work, and like you said, dependent on software plugin coding. On another note. The onely other thing with the X touch is the level meters are in the red and at clipping all the time even after resetting all midi drivers. The metering reads as should in Logic and the Metric Halo MIO mixer which I use instead of the Logic mixer, so will look for a solution to that.
Thanks again,
Jim
Thanks again,
Jim
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Good that it works now for you. I have a correction of my own statement:
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The following might also apply to the X Touch:
Regarding your overshooting levelmeter display: Level values are sent by Logic and the X Touch interprets them. Probably you can fix this by setting Logic's level meters to linear mode, but I think you won't be happy with that. Issues like this are usually fixed by a firmware update on the controller, you could tell Behringer about the problem. Be aware that continuous multichannel levelmeter updates produce a vast amount of MIDI data.
Although this is true, it does not apply to Omnisphere. As I learned now, there are already data in the controlling device and you can map parameters manually. Including parameter names, which are assigned on the fly.
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The following might also apply to the X Touch:
- MCU: Click 2 times on "Instrument". Now you can control the levels of Omnnisphere parts 1-8 by the V-Pots (in Flip mode by faders).
- MCU: Scroll arrow right (next parameter page).
- Omnisphere: Right click on parameter and enable host control => MIDI CC learn => turn the knob you want on the controller.
- Tested with Filter Cutoff in Part 1, Layers A and B. MCU display shows "1AFilt" on channel 1 and "1BFilt" on channel 2.
- You can probably construct an almost complete mapping configuration this way. Right click on Omnisphere's parameter and selecting "Show full MIDI report" opens a list with all mapped parameters.
- However, you decide if it makes sense for you. I personally prefer to do it directly in Omnisphere and write automation. Repeatedly switching the controller and looking for parameters is inconvenient for me. Could be better with a Mackie C4.
Regarding your overshooting levelmeter display: Level values are sent by Logic and the X Touch interprets them. Probably you can fix this by setting Logic's level meters to linear mode, but I think you won't be happy with that. Issues like this are usually fixed by a firmware update on the controller, you could tell Behringer about the problem. Be aware that continuous multichannel levelmeter updates produce a vast amount of MIDI data.
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Thanks again Peter.
Yes the correct name assignments show up automatically which is great. The only thing I don't get is when I assign the first parameter in either Omnisphere or Trillion to the first Vpot on the X Touch, the other Vpots don't assign to the next parameters of that first page, unless I hit the scroll arrow next page parameter. Once i'm on the second page or any page after, all the parameters manually assign to the Vpots in sequential order, so for me, only the first parameter to the first Vpot can be assigned on the first page. Wonder why that is? I changed it to sectional db linear. I did not see any change. Looking into it further. The X touch faders function like on off switches visually. The control is good and even in how it controls the logic mixer , but is either clipping or off on the controller meters.
Thanks, Jim
Yes the correct name assignments show up automatically which is great. The only thing I don't get is when I assign the first parameter in either Omnisphere or Trillion to the first Vpot on the X Touch, the other Vpots don't assign to the next parameters of that first page, unless I hit the scroll arrow next page parameter. Once i'm on the second page or any page after, all the parameters manually assign to the Vpots in sequential order, so for me, only the first parameter to the first Vpot can be assigned on the first page. Wonder why that is? I changed it to sectional db linear. I did not see any change. Looking into it further. The X touch faders function like on off switches visually. The control is good and even in how it controls the logic mixer , but is either clipping or off on the controller meters.
Thanks, Jim
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Cumbersome parameter assignment ... I cannot test it, but you can:
Load Logic's Sculpture synthesizer in a channelstrip and check how it looks on your controller. Do you get many pages of parameters? If yes, you may have a couple of pages between only two parameters you need. I rather think that the step-wise assignment system of Spectrasonics is an advantage. You map only the parameters you need and in the order you want them. Better invest half an hour to get it right than having everything automatic, ending up with a huge and practically unusable array of parameters. In later Logic versions Apple solved this problem with Smart Controls, which are on an additional layer between plugins and Controller Assignments.
Level meters: According to your description this is a bug in the X-Touch.
Load Logic's Sculpture synthesizer in a channelstrip and check how it looks on your controller. Do you get many pages of parameters? If yes, you may have a couple of pages between only two parameters you need. I rather think that the step-wise assignment system of Spectrasonics is an advantage. You map only the parameters you need and in the order you want them. Better invest half an hour to get it right than having everything automatic, ending up with a huge and practically unusable array of parameters. In later Logic versions Apple solved this problem with Smart Controls, which are on an additional layer between plugins and Controller Assignments.
Level meters: According to your description this is a bug in the X-Touch.
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Yes, thats what I do with omnisphere. Sculpture is massive in the number of pages. I see your point having to scroll to be using just a few parameters. Its not practically. If i start to use logic instruments more I may move to Logic X, but I use mostly Omnisphere, trillion, and the ULN 8 plugins in their MIO mixer. But those plugins don't map to the controller, just faders, pan, and input trim levels.
I wrote behringer on the meters, we'll see.
Thanks, Jim
I wrote behringer on the meters, we'll see.
Thanks, Jim
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Don't expect too much. Maybe they'll get the meters a little more usable over the Mackie protocol, but not much more. The reason is the sheer amount of data, even with just 8 LED segments per channel. They need to keep top priority for tasks like volume, pan and plugin control.
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